Penn State, Death Penalty or Not?

[kilo2]

Penn State will get 2-3 years, I can almost guarantee it.

I'd much rather see them get 10 years and lessening the 'death penalty' to 5 years if they throw their faulty Administration (including the late Paterno) under the bus by admitting there was wrong doing. No more trying to cover it up (or putting a happier face on it), and firing every single faculty member that was involved (no matter how minor).

Frankly, if Penn State can survive the civil suits against them (500million+), it will be amazing. In addition, I hope the victims sue the school, the people who made up the Administation at the time, and even the late Paterno's estate until nothing is left in their names/estates.

I understand this will affect students and even the local area, but if soft discipline is used here, it will send an entirely wrong message to all other schools. I still believe some of Penn State's Administration should be going to jail because of the mandatory reporting laws that were not followed.

Really think about it you seem to be a intelligent guy. Do you honestly believe there needs to be a message sent to other schools not to molest children?

Honestly with such a heinous crime how much of a message does there need to be sent?

[Bodhi]

Penn State will get 2-3 years, I can almost guarantee it.

I'd much rather see them get 10 years and lessening the 'death penalty' to 5 years if they throw their faulty Administration (including the late Paterno) under the bus by admitting there was wrong doing. No more trying to cover it up (or putting a happier face on it), and firing every single faculty member that was involved (no matter how minor).

Frankly, if Penn State can survive the civil suits against them (500million+), it will be amazing. In addition, I hope the victims sue the school, the people who made up the Administation at the time, and even the late Paterno's estate until nothing is left in their names/estates.

I understand this will affect students and even the local area, but if soft discipline is used here, it will send an entirely wrong message to all other schools. I still believe some of Penn State's Administration should be going to jail because of the mandatory reporting laws that were not followed.

Well put Delerium.  I have to believe that the NCAA sees this as a keystone moment in their future.  They have the chance to show to the world that the laws must be followed and integrity of ethics and honesty are cornerstones of the NCAA's principles.  If they go soft on the school for a systemic failure, then the repercussions will be massive.  Personally, I would like to see 10 year ban on all NCAA sports at PSU as it would send a very strong message.  In reality, I think it is possible to see a one year on all sports and 3 to 5 on football.  Sadly, the reality will not send a strong enough message in my opinion.

I also understand that many lives are affected by the punishment handed down.  But as you said, soft discipline sends the wrong message.  People are going to suffer and are going to be angry, but the reality of the situation is, they can not blame anyone but PSU for allowing this to continue to happen.

[Bodhi]

Really think about it you seem to be a intelligent guy. Do you honestly believe there needs to be a message sent to other schools not to molest children?

Honestly with such a heinous crime how much of a message does there need to be sent?

Kilo,
You are missing the intent of the message entirely.  It is nothing to do about not molesting other children.  Sandusky did that and he is being punished for it (albeit to lenient in my eyes).  This is about a universal failure of the athletics department to follow the law and attempting to keep the molestation quiet and a school administration that failed to exercise proper Institutional Control over it's athletic program.

Please try and understand, Sandusky's actions and the schools are two different issues.  The one's at focus and what the NCAA will rule on are the failures of the school to act properly when confronted with the allegations that Sandusky was raping children.  Those 12 years of silence are going to haunt PSU for generations to come.

[Maverick]

One way the NCAA could take the duration of the penalty is to look at how many years the school did nothing. If they let it go on for 12 years, the penalty could conceivably be for 12 years. It's kind of fitting in a way. Punish the institution for failing to act and the duration of failure to act until forced to do so only by being exposed in the news publicly. Severe? Yup, but then again so is child rape, especially when it's a serial situation.

[caldera]

I think 10 years is reasonable.  Based upon the precedence for past punishments involving the NCAA "death penalty" (2 years for paying players to pay), the only reasonable reaction is to severely punish PSU.  As for destroying lives, I think people can get over not playing sports, but how do you suppose the victims of this heinous crime will endure?   

Nothing you do to the school will lessen the suffering of the victims.  It will only add more suffering for people that weren't involved in any way.  If a 10 year blacklisting over all the sports went into effect, it would cause economic suffering and a blight on an entire community for 20 years or more.  Imagine a teacher or student with Penn State sports on his resume' getting passed over.  What about all the area small businesses (which employ people, btw) going out of business, costing people their livelihoods.  People that had absolutely nothing to do with the heinous crimes or their cover up.

Put the people responsible for the cover up behind bars - hell, execute them for all I care. 

[JOACH1M]

Really think about it you seem to be a intelligent guy. Do you honestly believe there needs to be a message sent to other schools not to molest children?

Honestly with such a heinous crime how much of a message does there need to be sent?

Yes a message does need to be sent (IMO). It will show other school the penalty they will have if something fishy is going on in their organization and keeping it on the down low.

[Bodhi]

Nothing you do to the school will lessen the suffering of the victims.  It will only add more suffering for people that weren't involved in any way.  If a 10 year blacklisting over all the sports went into effect, it would cause economic suffering and a blight on an entire community for 20 years or more.  Imagine a teacher or student with Penn State sports on his resume' getting passed over.  What about all the area small businesses (which employ people, btw) going out of business, costing people their livelihoods.  People that had absolutely nothing to do with the heinous crimes or their cover up.

Put the people responsible for the cover up behind bars - hell, execute them for all I care. 

I disagree.  A severe punishment might just show the victims that they really do matter and it's not all about legacy coaches, legacy teams, and money.  Further, it might just provide a shocking example of what happens when you lose Institutional Control.

So, in your eyes, the University can break the NCAA rules yet not be punished for it, because people rely on it for jobs?  Please.  That's a foolish statement.  There is and will be 44000 students still going to PSU.  Bars and restaurants will still do business during football season just like always.  The big difference, PSU should not participate.  Sure, there will be an impact on the local economy, there always is when an Institution is punished for wrong doing.  That does not change the fact that a severe punishment is warranted.

[Delirium]

Honestly with such a heinous crime how much of a message does there need to be sent?

Obviously a larger message, otherwise Sandusky's behavior wouldn't of gone on so many years. It isn't so much punishing Penn State, but showing other schools what can happen if they don't do the right thing.

If nothing happens to Penn State, then it will send a different message; that football programs are more important than the bodily harm and emotional destruction that can occur to children. That was the mindset of Penn State when they covered for Sandusky, including Paterno, and it should not happen again.

[Karnak]

The fact that a punishment does not undo the damage has never, to my knowledge, been used as a reason for a more lenient, or complete removal of, a punishment in any sort of disciplinary situation.

[grizz441]

If nothing happens to Penn State, then it will send a different message; that football programs are more important than the bodily harm and emotional destruction that can occur to children. That was the mindset of Penn State when they covered for Sandusky, including Paterno, and it should not happen again.

I think the message it will show is that this is a criminal matter, not an NCAA matter, as no NCAA rules have been broken which would warrant the death penalty.

If the NCAA wants to stick Penn State for it, they will have to get them for something else and throw the book at them.  For example Al Capone getting nailed for tax evasion.  If they do a full audit and see that Penn State broke some other NCAA rules that would otherwise be a slap on the wrist, they might suddenly result in the max penalties for said violations.

[Bodhi]

You are incorrect in your statement that they did not break NCAA rules Grizz.  6.0.1 of the charter is the start, but there are plenty of other things there to.  There will be a death penalty, you can count on it.

The President of the NCAA, Mark Emmert, said this week to PBS, "I have never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope to never see it again"


The smart money would be for Penn State to shut there own football program down.  That would show they were serious about the issues at hand.

[Masherbrum]

I can see a minimum of 2-3 year Death Sentence happening.    The longer this plays out, the more disgusting this will end up being.   Which might drive this Death Sentence more than 5 years.    The School covered it up and now Trustees are resigning.    

Just like the Report of Universities sitting on Million of Dollars came out this year.    You can bet that nest egg will be dipped into and is probably already being used.

Just like the other thread.    It is glaring to see who on this BBS is a Parent.   

[caldera]

I disagree.  A severe punishment might just show the victims that they really do matter and it's not all about legacy coaches, legacy teams, and money.  Further, it might just provide a shocking example of what happens when you lose Institutional Control.

The fact that a punishment does not undo the damage has never, to my knowledge, been used as a reason for a more lenient, or complete removal of, a punishment in any sort of disciplinary situation.

Put the people responsible for the cover up behind bars - hell, execute them for all I care. 

Does this sound like lenient punishment?  How could anyone miss the message this would send to any future administrators about protecting the "system"?

[Delirium]

The more I look at the rules, the more I think NCAA will ban some of the Penn State athletic staff from participating for many years, instead of instituting any 'death penalty' over the entire program.

[Hajo]

What the NCAA does or doesn't do will bring a lengthy explanation of why from them.

I have no idea what NCAA will do.  But I agree they will do something.  They have to

or the publics perception of the NCAA will be viewed as an organizatioin that skips the

hard part and are basically a figurehead organization without much authority.  If that

is the case if every school decides to ignore the NCAA, there is nothing the NCAA can do about it.

They can become moot at that point and basically useless.  This is going to be something to watch.