Author Topic: any body work/ painters guy around?  (Read 357 times)

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
any body work/ painters guy around?
« on: July 21, 2012, 04:41:36 PM »
Im done doing rust/Bondo and went to my local auto paint supply store to get some primer sealer and primer filler before shoot my urethane single stage top coat.

The guy gives me only a Legacy Finishes Universal Primer 9860, claiming that because it's a catalyst primer I don't need a primer sealer. Really?! I can't get tech from the manufacturer, they are closed on Saturday's .. off course :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 04:46:04 PM by SFRT - Frenchy »
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 04:45:21 PM »
No idea, I've been using Ditzler PPG and DuPont for decades, I have not used any Legacy products. I always use a sealer product over any primer, always. Those "shortcut" products are for body shops who are doing insurance jobs.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 04:52:28 PM »
Legacy is Vaspar, my top coat is Nason (DuPont). I'm debating getting the Oreilley rust o leum primer, if only I knew if it was compatible with my urethane paint. :joystick:

Btw you use sealer over the primer filler/sanding, I'm doing the over way around ... does it makes a difference.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 04:54:59 PM by SFRT - Frenchy »
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 06:54:02 PM »
I've not used Valspar. Seems to be a good product with a good reputation.

I've never used Rustoleum as a part of a body or chassis paint job. And certainly not with other products of different companies.

At the most, I may use a primer/surfacer/filler that is not the same brand as the color coat, but once I get to the sealer, it and everything else from there on is the same brand with brand recommended compatibility. I'm not chemist, and I hate paint and body work, so the last thing I want is self inflicted problems.

I always use a good sealer as the last step before I start shooting color.







Mind you, I'm a hobby painter, not a pro.








But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 06:57:32 PM by Captain Virgil Hilts »
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 08:57:54 PM »
Upon reflection, I will say that I use a good non sanding sealer after I'm completely through with primer. The reason is that a lot of color coats will cause primer to "swell", revealing even the most minute flaws (sand scratches, etc), and then it shrinks unevenly.

If you really want to avoid such problems, let your primer/surfacer set for 2-4 weeks after you finish all sanding, then seal it, then let it set for at least a week. Then you'll have the absolute minimum penetration of any solvents in the top coat.

I learned most of what I know from working with my Dad. He was doing paint and body work in the fifties, and was even really good at doing lead. He was one of the last 2-3 people within a couple hundred miles who could do lead work. He never could teach me to do it reasonably well. I could probably do it now, as I have more patience. But I learned the trade out of necessity 30 years ago. I simply could not afford to pay anyone. But I learned the old school way. In fact, I first started fooling with it at the age of 6, when Dad was restoring a 52 MGTC in the basement garage. That little car took over a year to fix with three of us working 3-4 nights a week for 2-3 hours. It sat for 2 months after the last coat of primer was sanded. It sat for another month after it was sealed. Eventually, we put 50 or so coats of DuPont black lacquer on that car, carefully hand sanded with 600 grit between coats. A solid two gallons of paint was sprayed on that little car. Hell it sat for 2-3 months after the last coat, so it would dry and shrink. Then it was sanded starting with 1000 grit, and all the way up to 1500 grit. Then it was hand rubbed. Dad's final secret was cornstarch, he'd sprinkle it in with compound. After another 60-90 days, we waxed it with pure yellow carnuba.

I never could make a living at it. I did , out of necessity, do it as part of my work at a shop where we did custom vans for the handicap. That's where I learned a few short cuts.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline cobia38

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 07:29:36 AM »

 If your dealing with rust,no matter what you put on it, it will come back to haunt you.
  You can buy the most expensive  materials out there to cover it up and make it pretty,but in the end the only way to fix car cancer is replacement of the panel.


  Harvesting taters,one  K4 at a time

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 12:40:27 PM »
Yeah I've seen those xx,xxx man hours bodyworks aka $15,000 paint job. But they are irrelevant to me as all the cars I work on I daily drive even in winters and/or race. I'm like you, I do it out of necessity bcause of tight money. Thank God paint/primers have come miles away from your dad's days, even fro 10 years ago. Some of the old school painters I talked to say they feel obsolete, most o their tricks/experience have been 'phased out' by 'dummy proof' new paints. Hell, it's even hard to get a body shop to work on your car for a simple dent repair if it's not an issurance work. The money ain't there for them, and afterall they are a business  :mad:

Agreed Cobia, I wire brush as much as I could, and for what was too far gone I cut and fiberglassed the back  :uhoh might last a year or two on the FB parts. A welder and a small portable sandblaster is on my christmas list indeed, gets it done easier and 'right'.

Back to the original question, here's the answer I got :
When you read the sheet it tells you what the primer can be applied over - Substrates.
You will notice that bare metal/filler is not in the list so that indicates you need a primer. Epoxy is what I use but an etch primer can be used if your body/filler work is good to go (you can't put filler on top of etch primer but you can on top of epoxy primer).
If a Sealer is required it would be stated in the Techsheet and it is not. With a urethane based primer/filler sealers are optional when top coating with a compatible product.


So the hell with it, sanded down the old paint on 80% of the car, the rest is bare metal, I'll coat it with Etch primer, then put this filler, then my single stage. Best teacher will be time  :old:
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 02:59:49 PM »
Get yourself a small TIG welder, such as a Lincoln TIG 175. With a TIG welder you can do damned near anything, it will just be slow compared to a MIG. With a MIG, there are some things you just cannot do. That little Lincoln TIG 175 is incredible for the home shop. Get a bottle of argon, and a bottle of 75/25, and get an auto dark helmet. Get yourself a copy of High Performance Welding by Richard Finch, published by HP Books, I think Amazon has it.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Waldo

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 176
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 03:35:26 PM »
 Frenchy check pm's :aok
I read it on the internet, so it must be true !

Offline VonMessa

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11922
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 08:20:53 AM »
Probably too late but, I just painted my boat with Tractor Supply Company Tractor and Implement primer/paint.

Alkyd Enamel (similar to Rust-Oleum)

I rolled/tipped the primer (no thinner or hardener)

Sprayed the gray and white (thinned with lacquer thinner for quick flash 1 oz. to 8 oz. paint) and used a catalyst hardener (2 oz. to 8 oz. paint)

wet sanded 400/600 grit between coats

wet sanded final coat 1000 grit then used a heavy-cut machine compound then a finish-cut polish (Meguires Heavy-Cut and Meguires #3)

Haven't waxed yet as I have some nose-art to paint on, yet.

I am also a hobby painter, not a pro (although I got a bunch of advice from a friend that IS a pro)

I can't believe the finish that I got with the materials that I used and considering I painted it in my back yard...






Braümeister und Schmutziger Hund von JG11


We are all here because we are not all there.

Offline Barrett

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 166
Re: any body work/ painters guy around?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 10:49:51 AM »
Looks good -
BONDEN1 9GIAP VVS RKKA

_____________________________ ______________
I'm so miserable without you, it's almost like having you here...