87G

[Ruah]

first shots at 300, second shots at 150 - 4 total bk rounds, all hits on a Wirble. . .nothing.

srsly?

[Slade]

Yep I noticed too it takes many shots, even at perfect angles and point of impact, to kill a vehicle.  Those gun cameras of 87s posted on youtube.com sure make them look more potent.

Hmmmm.....

[Rich46yo]

Yep I noticed too it takes many shots, even at perfect angles and point of impact, to kill a vehicle.  Those gun cameras of 87s posted on youtube.com sure make them look more potent.

Hmmmm.....

Even worse this plane is terrible at recovering energy in order to come in for another pass. Its has very little edge in climb to the IL2 to begin with, which isnt even noticeable, but the IL2 then retains its energy and lets you regain Alt for a 2nd high angle pass. The Hurri-D is another one very good at this. Both roll better then the 87G too. Both are far tougher. There are some players making kills in the 87G but I'd bet if they were spending equal time in the Hurri-D they'd be doing even better. The Hurri is far faster, climbs far better, rolls and retains much better, turns better. And Im not even convinced the Bk 3,7s are any better. At least as modeled

And forgetabout even comparing the 87G to the IL2. The NS-37s are still without peer. Well at least I like the clouds and new sounds.

[WWhiskey]

I had no trouble killing a t 34 with it,, fired two times, four round total testing the guns then fired one time, two rounds into the engine deck at a 45 degree angle and poof, it was gone!

[Rich46yo]

I had no trouble killing a t 34 with it,, fired two times, four round total testing the guns then fired one time, two rounds into the engine deck at a 45 degree angle and poof, it was gone!

Stats show you killing ONE M4 in the 87G Whiskey.

Ive killed several T-34s with it. Never with a 2 shot volley, and now dont find it worth the time.

[WWhiskey]

Stats show you killing ONE M4 in the 87G Whiskey.

Ive killed several T-34s with it. Never with a 2 shot volley, and now dont find it worth the time.

Yep. I remembered wrong.  It was an m-4. But with just one round out of each gun

[Slade]

Yep. I remembered wrong.  It was an m-4. But with just one round out of each gun

More data points would be useful for a lucid benchmark.

If anyone has killed 50+ tanks in the 87 this tour I'd like get his\her feedback.  Pros\Cons.  Preferred method of attack.  Convergence.  etc. etc. etc.

[Ruah]

Firstly, no one has 50+, Raphael and Cannuk are both tied at 20 kills each, and 5 others are 10+, with me at 16. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour151&pindex=124

So here is what I think:

1)If you want to be effective, fly an IL2.  It has guns that are comparable or better. More rounds,  has rockets and bombs, is tougher, is faster. 
2) If they have a wirble, you have to stay outside what is icon range for you (they see you though) and dodge their bullets.  If they have a wirble, you need to time your attack for when they are actively shooting at someone else.  You are wirble food.
3) First round (one from each, they fire at the same time) is at d300 after which you decide if it needs 2 more at d100.

and this is where I think the BK 5 needs to really show its strength - if I fire off 2 rounds with hits into the track from a shallow 10/20 degree angle at d300 - It should kill the tank (barring tigers), the second set, at d100ish should be a kill on any hit barring the front for some tanks.  As it stands, I have put 3 sets/6 rounds smack into a wirble without a kill now several times - first set smoked him, second set tracked him, thrid set got hits and no kill and then a bomb from an A20 killed him and I got an assist. . . and that happening once in awhile is ok. . .but it consistently happens is laughable.

Personally speaking, the BK needs a big damage boost - you get 12 rounds of rock and roll, the round should be a one set kill on any GV inside 300.

But I think the 87G2 is sexy as hell and I love flying it. . . but yah. . . the gun simply does not do enough.

[R 105]

 I have only used it off line and had a problem getting a kill in the 87-G. Compared to the IL-2 it is kind of worthless for me. Funny when I watch the real film footage of the JU-87G on YouTube the German pilots don't seem to be have the same problem a I am with it's guns. Too bad Hans Rudel is not still with us maybe he could have had some input as to the modeling of this old war birds effectiveness.

[Acidrain]

I was playing around with the 410 and the 50mm against a 75mm Sherman...yes im aware the 50mm is HE but I wanted to see its efficacy against the soft spots on lighter tanks. hit it in the tracks once no damage , then I dove in just off vertical(maybe 80-85deg) and hit it with 2 rounds behind the turret...no damage. Third attempt I got in under 400m before firing and I clipped a tree pulling out. Upped a Ju87 with the 37mm  took 3 hits from it in a 85-90deg dive to kill that same sherman. I will just grab a IL2 from now on.

[Rich46yo]

More data points would be useful for a lucid benchmark.

If anyone has killed 50+ tanks in the 87 this tour I'd like get his\her feedback.  Pros\Cons.  Preferred method of attack.  Convergence.  etc. etc. etc.

Its not going to happen. The leading 87G shooters in its first tour, to the one, have turned away from the aircraft this tour. And I assume will stay away as I have. So far this tour a player named CAMEL9 appears to be leading in tank kills with it, including 6 T-34s. Which is kinda funny cause CAMEL9 didnt exist before tour 150 and didnt kill a thing in the 87G in that tour.

Keep in mind the 2nd most likely tank you will face, by far, will be a T-34. Only the paper machete P-4 is used more so the fact that "some" T-34 kills are trickling in shouldnt surprise. But less and less are, and less and less legit players are hunting it using its main nemisis from the air in the war. IL2s didnt much shoot T-34s so the 87Gs particular weakness against it is a let down.

So without a major fix one of the wars most exciting tank hunters, flown by legends, has passed the "flying turd" mark and is OTW to Queendom. Make room in the back of the hangar.

[Karnak]

Its not going to happen. The leading 87G shooters in its first tour, to the one, have turned away from the aircraft this tour. And I assume will stay away as I have. So far this tour a player named CAMEL9 appears to be leading in tank kills with it, including 6 T-34s. Which is kinda funny cause CAMEL9 didnt exist before tour 150 and didnt kill a thing in the 87G in that tour.

Keep in mind the 2nd most likely tank you will face, by far, will be a T-34. Only the paper machete P-4 is used more so the fact that "some" T-34 kills are trickling in shouldnt surprise. But less and less are, and less and less legit players are hunting it using its main nemisis from the air in the war. IL2s didnt much shoot T-34s so the 87Gs particular weakness against it is a let down.

So without a major fix one of the wars most exciting tank hunters, flown by legends, has passed the "flying turd" mark and is OTW to Queendom. Make room in the back of the hangar.

Does any of that surprise you based on the German's repeated attempts to withdraw the Ju87 from service due to its low survivability?  Your statement here makes it look like you expected the Ju87 to be something other than a sitting  duck in the LWA.

[Slade]

Your statement here makes it look like you expected the Ju87 to be something other than a sitting  duck in the LWA.

I expect to be fighter bait in any dedicated tank killing plane.  I just wish the 87 was more effective at killing tanks.  I am OK with all of the rest of its attributes.  I was really looking forward to tank hunting in it.

So let me ask this please.  In WWII how effective were the 87g's tank busting guns compared to the IL2 and Hurri IID etc.?  

It feels like I am firing tennis balls at tanks with the 87g.

EDIT: Ruah great post.  I feel the same.  

[Fox]

Here is a link I found a while back.  Not sure that it answers any of your questions though.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm

[Rich46yo]

Does any of that surprise you based on the German's repeated attempts to withdraw the Ju87 from service due to its low survivability?  Your statement here makes it look like you expected the Ju87 to be something other than a sitting  duck in the LWA.

Im not talking about "survivability". Im talking about its ability to kill tanks. Nobody expected it to be an ATA fighter but this was a great tank hunter made famous despite low numbers. Most of all by SG 2 "Immelmann", which killed thousands of Soviet tanks with their cannon.

Maybe you should actually read my statements.