A few words

[Kirin]

Hmm... I think this is more delicate than we want to realize.

Yes, a community like ours needs rules and those rules must be followed - if one does not follow those rules he will be punished.

One risk of this procedure is to create a really boring, one sided, amorphous community. Like in those clubs someone mentioned "coat & tie required" - personally I detest such places because people going there think they're SOOO elite but the truth is that they're just boring. I think a community needs colour diversity - not uniformed, auto-nodding members. If everyone is thinking and doing the same thing there will be no advance. Thesis + Anti-Thesis = Synthesis.

AH is my No.1 spare time killer and I really enjoy it. I found good friends in my squad and beyond.

From what I take from Pyros post it looks like that Nath was banned because he was a disturbing element in the community. From what I know and read he didn't perform any abusive action against any community member, neither was he destructive towards the game itself. Alright, his diplomatic abilites are less developed than his flying skills and he can be a pain when in loudmouth-mode. He might have been inconvinient - that's enough reason to kick him out?

If yes, we looking ahead into a very uncertain future. History showed us several times in the past what happens when a community starts to expell inconvinient individuals. And I not talking about really abusive, destructive people - just about people who didn't fit in the scheme of a perfect community member. Do we have to be afraid of what we type on squad channel because we could be monitored saying something that doesn't please HTC? The "Welcome back, Nath"-thread really shows how denounceiative (spelling?/word?) our community has become. This is the first step into the void.

Don't get me wrong - AH is still the best WW2 sim out there, there is no alternative. I <S> the HTC crew for their great work - but this community thing leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Beware what kind of spirit you summoning...

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~Kirin~
 

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 04-08-2001).]

[VISCONTI]

<S> Kirin.

My poor english don't give me the possibility to express exactly what I mean, but your post is 100% what I'm thinking about the argument.

[-ammo-]

Kirin, I think I understand what you are saying however I cant see that what HTC is trying to create will turn out to be a "boring, one sided, amorphous community". The  community here just by the mere fact of its diversity lends to the opposite. Just asking folks to have an attitude of respect and restraint can only improve the atmosphere. if everyone just gets to express whatever foul language or insulting remarks they feel like does nothing to inspire a good community.

NAth has been around a while now, as nath11 and then on to be nathbdp. I can only say that although I  personally didnt enjoy his company, I held no grudge against him. We were just different. But I do recall other events back in 2000 where folks were complaining about him. I dont want to rehash them, I am not here to bash him. Just wanted you to know that it seems that nath has been given alot of breaks too.

ammo

[ET]

If you can not enjoy the use of the establishment without abusing the establishment or the other patrons,then you do not belong there.Try it in any bar in real life.There are many avenues open in HTC to voice complaints in a reasonable manner.
SALUTE to the staff of HTC.

[Fidd]

I was on-line when this occurred. I did NOT see the full story, as I had squelched channel 1, and was trying to squelch Hi-tech's blue text at the same time!  

My take it on it was that Both HTC and the community suffered here. From what I saw of Hi-techs text in blue could only have been characterised as inciendary, gaurenteed to cause Nath to become more reactionary. From the one side of the conversation (that I couldn't avoid seeing) it was very poorly handled, unless Hi-techs aim was to bring Nath to the point of saying somthing for which Hi-tech could publicly ban him. As the result was a permament ban, and HT isn't a fool, I can only conclude that was his aim.

Nath should have been muted, and then spoken to directly, without bringing the rest of the arena into it, and if that failed to resolve the issue, then by all means suspend/ban him.

I also found the locking of Nath's thread distastefully heavy-handed, and forsee problems ahead for HTC if they try and run a business like a private club. Sure we need discipline in the arena, but it shouldn't be with both sides standing on soap-boxes berating each other.

Wasn't dignified chaps, regardless of the rights and wrongs of it.

Fidd

[Lephturn]

Fidd,

Do not judge this thing based on this SINGLE occurence.  You do not know even a tiny bit of what really happened here.  The problems with Nath have been going on since he was Nath11, in short a long, long time.  This was just the final straw.

He dug his own grave.

<S> to HTC for doing the right thing.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[DRILL]

  same hear this the best game i found
   as a matter of fact im even quitting WB after 4 yrs i just dont play it any more this ones #1 in my book great job HT ,pyro
you have my suport 100% too

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DRILL

[lazs]

moose.. when u get a little older and ur reading comprhension get's a little better u will probly find out that there are people on this board who you disagree with even more than you do me.  
lazs

[Fidd]

Hi Lephturn,

Don't worry! I'd figured that the ban was likely richly deserved! My point was that in this instance, it might well have been the "right thing" as you put it - but done in very much the "wrong way". From my point of view (as I saw it on the night)HT *appeared* (to me at least) to handle it pretty poorly. The fact that I became aware from BBS posts that Nath "had it coming" is neither here nor there, as its the impression that new players form of the way the arena is "policed" as seen in the arena, that is at issue here.

What I *saw on the night*, had I not bothered to follow up the "story" on the boards here, would have caused me to form the opinion that AH is rather capriciously policed. It's the *appearance* of the thing I'm commenting on, especially as viewed by a lot of newer players (such as myself) who were unaware of the preceding history. I'm certainly NOT saying that HT did't do the right thing, merely that it could, and *should* have been handled very differently. IMHO of course.

It didn't inspire confidence.

Fidd


 

Originally posted by Lephturn:
Fidd,

Do not judge this thing based on this SINGLE occurence.  You do not know even a tiny bit of what really happened here.  The problems with Nath have been going on since he was Nath11, in short a long, long time.  This was just the final straw.

He dug his own grave.

<S> to HTC for doing the right thing.

[sling322]

Actually Fidd....it seems that Nath was given multiple chances on the very day in question.  I believe that Superfly muted him once and then HiTech muted him at least once before the boot came.....so the question remains, "how many times do you let him get away with it before you take harsher actions?"

[Hooligan]

Hehehehehe

I am highly amused by some of the reasoning I have been seeing.  3000 customers (or whatever the number is) from across a tremendous social spectrum seem to be able to meet a very minimal standard of behaviour.  However just a very few individuals can't seem to meet this standard of civility and are booted.  Then I hear:  "That was too harsh; they should have been banned for a short while and given another chance."

IMO they may have needed a timeout when they were 5 years old, but now it is probably way too late.

Hooligan

[Moose11]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
moose.. when u get a little older and ur reading comprhension get's a little better u will probly find out that there are people on this board who you disagree with even more than you do me.  
lazs

Oh, I disagree plenty. You're just easy to pick on.  

And age has little to do with anything it seems when it comes to Aces High, does it?

[Skysix1]

I think you guys at HTC are doing a great job.  I may not totally agree with the way the game is setup, but I still enjoy it.

I have a few friends here (and part of a great squad) that I enjoy flying with and I enjoy the social interaction with just about everyone I have seen online here in AH.  

Most everyone is very helpful and even if you get the best of them or they get the best of me they will usually say hello and good job.  

This makes my free time online very fun and stress free.  I have always felt that no matter what you do if you hitting the stress button it's time to change what your doing.

If your not changing what your doing it's almost a guarantee someone will change it for you.

Have Fun everyone,
Isn't that what your supposed to be doing anyway?

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Chuck Perry   
"Sky61"

[Fidd]

Hi, I wasn't evading your question, it just didn't seem pertinant to the issue I raised, namely that it was done in public. However, seeming as you ask this (to me unrelated) question, the answer from my point of view is one chance, at least of the ultimate sanction - ie  lifetime ban.

Assuming offenses are bad but not outrageous:
1st offence - you get spoken to, privately.
2nd offense you get muted, and suspended a week; and emailed why.
3rd offense you get final (emailed) warning.

Any further - you're gone, for good.

This is about what I'd favour. Notice that the severity is probably worse that HT's forbearance - but it's all done privatly. No martyrs, no drama, just bushwhacked.

Incidentally, I'd make it so that after the 2 week trial, you pay $60 for 3 months, rather than 3 (cheaper - $30 is expensive) and thus ensure that anyone wanting to create hell in the arena under an alias gets to pay $60 for the privildge. Call it bill aversion therapy!  

Fidd


 

Originally posted by sling322:
Actually Fidd....it seems that Nath was given multiple chances on the very day in question.  I believe that Superfly muted him once and then HiTech muted him at least once before the boot came.....so the question remains, "how many times do you let him get away with it before you take harsher actions?"

[Jebo44]

I don't know Nath and I don't know what the hell is going on.

The job that HT has is a fine line. We have alot of freedom with this game but sometimes it gets over stepped.

On the other hand we do pay a fair chunk of change to HT to play, which makes it difficult to provide a great atmosphere for gaming and yet keep your customers happy.

Now before everyone starts blistering me let me make it clear I am not complaining about the price {Just dont raise it please}

What I am trying to point out is that HT has a very tough row to hoe, with keeping customers happy and keeping the standards of the game intact.