Author Topic: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte  (Read 2186 times)

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 08:22:42 AM »
Fair enough :aok
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Offline jimson

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2012, 11:21:33 AM »
We're not going to vet every setup for 100% pure historical accuracy. We are Axis vs Allies, not WW2 reenactment arena. We can't limit numbers like 30% of allies fly this plane 70% fly this plane, we can't limit the number of lives, we can't do many of the things that SEA does for playability.

If a staffer thinks an earlier spit would be better for balance than the Spit16, then he can do that.

Everything we do has an alternate history possibility anyway, so lets just say due to shortages and combat losses, the allies had to deploy some refurbished older planes.

Friendly suggestions are welcome.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 04:40:59 PM »
LOL well they did lose a lot of Spits on the ground during Bodenplatte :)

Not trying to cause a fuss Jimson.  It's all good to me, and trust me I get it :aok
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Offline jimson

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2012, 07:51:44 PM »
Not trying to cause a fuss Jimson.  It's all good to me, and trust me I get it :aok
No problem sir.
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Offline Tracerfi

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2012, 08:00:38 PM »
was this the German attack that started one on the greatest battles of WW2 (The Battle of Y29)
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 08:42:19 PM »
was this the German attack that started one on the greatest battles of WW2 (The Battle of Y29)

Y29 was one of the Luftwaffe targets in Bodebplatte.  366th FG Jugs were in the air, 352nd FG Mustangs on the runway.  366th broke up the initial run allowing the 352nd a chance to get rolling.  JG11 was the Luftwaffe unit.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2012, 10:48:10 AM »
When someone has a suggestion, posing it in the form of a friendly suggestion is an approach that works very well here.
No it doesn't.  I have posted what Dan posted over and over and over and you guys keep using the Spitfire Mk IX in inappropriate settings over and over.  The problem is that you have a bunch of US fans and a bunch of Luftwaffe fans running this place who couldn't care less about anything else and lack the knowledge to pick the correct units.

That is why I left the AvA.  I got sick of this kind of "predetermine which side wins" setups created by people who have no interest in the opposing side being 1) competitive and 2) accurate.  The final straw was using the Brewster in Pacific settings and my being told that "It was fine as it gave the Americans a chance" when setting after setting had put the Japanese at serious disadvantage and we were told it was fine as it was historical.  So historical only matters if it helps the Americans, but if it helps the Japanese it is to be discarded.

(BTW, I logged onto play in the AvA a week or two ago when you guys had a setting with the Mosquito Mk VI, but there was nobody else in the AvA.)
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Offline Nr_RaVeN

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2012, 11:54:59 AM »
Instead of whining because pepole are not working specifically to your specifications why not do some work yourself?

Spend some of your free time, work on a set up, make the tables,  write up a motd, make up a presentation to be posted in the forums and submit it to the AVA staff. We would be more than happy to run it for you and give you full credit for all the time effort and energy that goes into it so that others can enjoy themselves through your hard work.
 looking forward to seeing what you put together for the comunity.
Thanks Bud.. :aok

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Offline jimson

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2012, 12:07:04 PM »
No it doesn't.  I have posted what Dan posted over and over and over and you guys keep using the Spitfire Mk IX in inappropriate settings over and over.  The problem is that you have a bunch of US fans and a bunch of Luftwaffe fans running this place who couldn't care less about anything else and lack the knowledge to pick the correct units.

That is why I left the AvA.  I got sick of this kind of "predetermine which side wins" setups created by people who have no interest in the opposing side being 1) competitive and 2) accurate.  The final straw was using the Brewster in Pacific settings and my being told that "It was fine as it gave the Americans a chance" when setting after setting had put the Japanese at serious disadvantage and we were told it was fine as it was historical.  So historical only matters if it helps the Americans, but if it helps the Japanese it is to be discarded.

(BTW, I logged onto play in the AvA a week or two ago when you guys had a setting with the Mosquito Mk VI, but there was nobody else in the AvA.)

A lot of what you are saying is untrue. Since I have been here I have rarely seen the Brewster in a pacific set up, we generally believe it isn't a suitable sub for the Buffalo.

Now take this particular setup. Do you really believe the Spit 16 would balance the setup better?

Instead of whining because pepole are not working specifically to your specifications why not do some work yourself?

Spend some of your free time, work on a set up, make the tables,  write up a motd, make up a presentation to be posted in the forums and submit it to the AVA staff. We would be more than happy to run it for you and give you full credit for all the time effort and energy that goes into it so that others can enjoy themselves through your hard work.
 looking forward to seeing what you put together for the comunity.
Thanks Bud.. :aok

Why don't you do that? We'll run it.

PS: Read this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,332654.0.html

See the difference in the approach you used there and how it was received compared to this one?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:33:38 PM by jimson »

Offline captain1ma

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2012, 01:36:45 PM »
The final straw was using the Brewster in Pacific settings and my being told that "It was fine as it gave the Americans a chance" when setting after setting had put the Japanese at serious disadvantage and we were told it was fine as it was historical.  So historical only matters if it helps the Americans, but if it helps the Japanese it is to be discarded.


The Brewster F2A Buffalo was an American fighter aircraft which saw limited service early in World War II. It was one of the first U.S. World War II monoplanes with an arrestor hook and other modifications for aircraft carriers. The Buffalo won a competition against the Grumman F4F Wildcat in 1939 to become the U.S. Navy's first monoplane fighter aircraft. Although superior to the Grumman F3F biplane it replaced,[1] the Buffalo turned out to be a big disappointment.

Several nations, including Finland, Belgium, Britain and the Netherlands, ordered the Buffalo to bolster their struggling air arms, but of all the users, only the Finns seemed to find their Buffalos effective, flying them in combat with excellent results.[2] During the Continuation War of 1941–1944, the B-239's (a de-navalized F2A-1) operated by the Finnish Air Force proved capable of engaging and destroying most types of Soviet fighter aircraft operating against Finland at that time, achieving, in the first phase of that conflict, a kill-ratio of 32:1, 32 Soviet aircraft shot down for every B-239 lost[3] and producing 36 Buffalo "aces".[4]

When World War II began in the Pacific[5] in December 1941, Buffalos operated by both British Commonwealth (B-339E) and Dutch (B-339D) air forces in South East Asia suffered severe losses in combat against the Japanese Navy's Mitsubishi A6M Zero and the Japanese Army's Nakajima Ki-43 "Oscar". The British attempted to lighten their Buffalos by removing ammunition and fuel and installing lighter guns in order to increase performance, but it made little difference.[5]

The Buffalo was built in three variants for the U.S. Navy, the F2A-1, F2A-2 and F2A-3. (In foreign service, with lower horsepower engines, these types were designated B-239, B-339, and B-339-23 respectively.) The F2A-3 variant saw action with United States Marine Corps (USMC) squadrons at the Battle of Midway. Shown by the experience of Midway to be no match for the Zero,[1] the F2A-3 was derided by USMC pilots as a "flying coffin."[6] The F2A-3, however, was significantly inferior to the F2A-2 variant used by the Navy before the outbreak of the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo

Offline Karnak

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2012, 02:44:44 PM »
I am well aware of what the Brewster is.  The B239 that the Finns used is in no way a suitable substitution for the F2A3 at Midway, the setting in question.

Basically using the B239 in that setting you give the Americans two very tough and well armed fighters, one of which turns very, very close to how well the A6M2 turns, making it very hard for the Japanese side to fight as they have to saddle up for extended shots on the overly tough American aircraft giving those same American aircraft the opportunity to easily hit the A6M2 with a burst of .50 fire which will instantly destroy it.  Using the B239 in those settings takes away the primary advantage the Japanese should have there.


As to this setting, I would have either sucked it up and put in the Spitfire Mk XVI or made it a straight USAAF vs Luftwaffe and left out all RAF birds.  Putting the Spitfire F.Mk IX into it is like using the Bf109G-2 instead of the Bf109G-14.
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Offline Nr_RaVeN

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2012, 04:39:05 PM »


As to this setting, I would have either sucked it up and put in the Spitfire Mk XVI or made it a straight USAAF vs Luftwaffe and left out all RAF birds.  Putting the Spitfire F.Mk IX into it is like using the Bf109G-2 instead of the Bf109G-14.

The below offer still stands..


Instead of whining because pepole are not working specifically to your specifications why not do some work yourself?

Spend some of your free time, work on a set up, make the tables,  write up a motd, make up a presentation to be posted in the forums and submit it to the AVA staff. We would be more than happy to run it for you and give you full credit for all the time effort and energy that goes into it so that others can enjoy themselves through your hard work.
 looking forward to seeing what you put together for the comunity.
Thanks Bud.. :aok


Rather than avoid the above why not step up...  With your knowledge and expertise it would be a joy to see your work and positive contribution to our comunity....
Life is short. PLAY HARD...

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Saadi

Offline cohofly

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2012, 09:54:35 AM »
Just to change the topic a tad. This was a challenging set up. Im no German Iron expert, but had fun flying em. (seems I always change sides to even it up).
Ah well, it gets me more familiar with planes that I dont usually fly in the MA. Thanks to all who made it happen and all who came in and fought.

<S>
Carver

ps. Spit IX stole the show IMO.
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2012, 06:24:26 AM »
No it doesn't.  I have posted what Dan posted over and over and over and you guys keep using the Spitfire Mk IX in inappropriate settings over and over.  The problem is that you have a bunch of US fans and a bunch of Luftwaffe fans running this place who couldn't care less about anything else and lack the knowledge to pick the correct units.

That is why I left the AvA.  I got sick of this kind of "predetermine which side wins" setups created by people who have no interest in the opposing side being 1) competitive and 2) accurate.  The final straw was using the Brewster in Pacific settings and my being told that "It was fine as it gave the Americans a chance" when setting after setting had put the Japanese at serious disadvantage and we were told it was fine as it was historical.  So historical only matters if it helps the Americans, but if it helps the Japanese it is to be discarded.



as a AVA CM, we have to balance historical with playability. while adding the latter spits is historical, playability wise it sucks. when you see the same name killing you over and over, you have a tendency to leave the arena. as AVA CM's we do the best we can to make it as historical as we can, while making it as fun as possible at the same time. sometimes playability wins out over total accuracy.

when people come in, like a bull in a china shop, making demands and derogatory comments, and are mostly never seen in the AVA, we tend not to take them seriously. while you may be right, your sniping is just a the sound of someone that needs to vent or hear themselves post. if you flew almost every night the way some of us do, and presented your facts in a less aggressive manner, we would probably more be willing to listen to what you have to say.

again as said before, if you think you have a setup that you would like to see, write it up and we'll run it. put your money where your mouth is!  i don't mean this as an insult but as a serious suggestion.

the japanese setup you refer to was probably close to 3 years ago. it ways a midway setup and we(I) added the Brewster into it, it was right after the Brewster was added to the game. while its true they were there, they were the underpowered model. but it turned the setup from a allied butt kicking to a more level setup. with the brewster added, it was a more even fight and there were some pretty good fights in the AVA that week. that was one setup 3 years ago. if all your opinions are based on something that was done 3 years ago, where have you been lately(strickly a rhetorical question!)? things change, its not the same people and not the same arena.


(BTW, I logged onto play in the AvA a week or two ago when you guys had a setting with the Mosquito Mk VI, but there was nobody else in the AvA.)


As for the numbers in the AVA, not much we can do about that. next time bring a friend or get some people from the MA's to swing in for a little while. hell, challenge a whole squad!

We are working very hard to make the AVA a fun place. We have initiated "Line of fire". we have the 8th vs Luftwaffe on thursday nights. a lot of people put a lot of effort into the game with no return other then the joy of trying to make people happy and trying to give them what they want. none of us are paid for what we do. none of us get over-time for what we do. we just do the best we can. sometimes its not historically correct but its close enough. please try to help us out. make a suggestion, not a snipe. feel free to participate, but if you're not gonna fly the arena, then there's no need for you to slam us and the arena just for fun. suggest and we react better. if you dont like our setups, write one. we'll run it for you.

this tirade, is not necessarily written to target one particular person, but rather a suggestion to the entire community. help us make it better for you. its not necessary to come in and blast away. all the CM's in the AVA are reasonable people and would be willing to consider any reasonable suggestions. we do not get paid for this, we love the arena and you fun is our fun too, since a lot of us fly in there. help us make it a better place for you!

thank you, we now take you back to your regularly scheduled program........
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 07:21:40 AM by captain1ma »

Offline BFOOT1

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Re: Up this week: Unternehmen Bodenplatte
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2012, 02:34:54 PM »
When is the best night to fly in the AvA with Max players in it?
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