Less eyestrain from a more realistic air-ground contrast ratio

[Chilli]

Heya Save 

I agree, that there are great limitations to human vision (especially mine).  However, even the creators "probably" agree to some extent that the 2 dimensional model has a greater difficulty, and thus has provided us with icons.

I do not wish to argue, at all, to what degree either form of identification improves on the other.  Moreover, this discussion began discussing the contrast between daylight terrain and the skyline.  I posed the opinion that greater contrast on the models (aluminum planes especially) gives them a "more realistic" look and feel, as well as make them easier to identify.  In just about every modification of a screenshot taken from Aces High, I boost the contrast in order to give this life like characteristic. 

Now, TDeacon has discussed his difficulty in locating vehicles in his OP, and attributes that to the "air to ground contrast ratio".  Your very valid point and shared expertise, is a vote of confidence for the status quo for vehicle and terrain contrast in game.  My layman's (museum / polished objects) point of view tells me that at 500 feet  my eyeballs have some extra 3D clues, such as sun glare and shadows that are better represented by a higher contrast level on objects.

[bustr]

Is TDeacon having a contrast problem zoomed or unzoomed?

Is he trying to retain the widest possible FoV from the commander's position while at the same time being able to scan and recognise GV at a distance from the background before going to zoom and limiting his commander's FoV? In his first screen shot, on zoom, does he have the problem with the contrast ratio?

If resolving other tanks from the background at distance is the issue. Wouldn't a typical non photoshop adjusted screen shot of what he sees from his commander position be in order? Since the new GV optics was introduced, I cannot resolve other GV's much of the time from the background unzoomed past 600 yards unless either they are traversing a light colored open feild or I'm on zoom.

It's possible the GV game needs a few more visual control options germain to it's environmental orientation which only comes into force while in manned ack positions and GV on the ground. After all once you see your air con's Icon it's all about getting within smelling distance before you open fire. Not admiring the color of his silk scarf from 1k since most fighters cannot hit anything at that range opposed to GV where 1k is point blank.

Or is this visual contrast low resolution at distance unzoomed by design? Kind of favors long range camping on zoom if it is. He who sees first shoots first. And tank commanders in WW2 didn't carry binoculars for nothing.

[Babalonian]

Contrast problem on your end, and it loosk like your graphics card has overheated beyond the point of return (possibley due to a power surge), sorry man.

[Eric19]

had the same problem when my old computer got zapped by a lighting strike it fired the video card but everything else was all right

[Chilli]

I am not sure of what would resolve TDeacon's sighting problems.  I guess you are asking the age old question of what came first the chicken or the egg?  Is AH a combat sim or a game?  Long range camping versus realistic expectations?

Recently, changes have come to effect the range of ground vehicle icons.  Some time ago, there were changes to the default settings that allowed clutter cover to be removed and smoke rounds were introduced.  My input and certainly Save's post were on the question about what is a more realistic 2 dimensional representation.

[bustr]

Chilli,

I thought if one turned on all the bump mapping and pushed the environment slider full left everyones fighters would resolve in the kind of detail you adjusted with photoshop just a tad less shiney.

Tested that just now offline with a D40 in default silver skin. It's beuootiful and my sitting still frame rate on the runway is 23. But, it loooks COOOOOLLLLLL. resolves great from F3 mode against the hill behind it.

So maybe the OP needs a newer bigger Hulkier PC.

[TDeacon]

Guys,

Pending my reply to HiTech, I just want to point out to you guys that I perceive this as primarily an eyestrain issue, and it has nothing to do with damaged hardware.  On any hardware available to me (at least 3 separate systems with both CRT and LCD displays), the ground is too dark relative to the sky, from a comfort perspective.  I am requesting either a global adjustment, or an option to adjust this sky/ground contrast on individual machines.  

This sky/ground contrast issue is either due to terrain tile color choices, or due to the lighting system used in AH.  The top image in my OP is *best* case; as I said it gets worse when the "sun" isn't at the Zenith.  

I suggest that you read my OP, and *not* the posts of fellow players who in some cases have misinterpreted the OP.  I know reading the entire thread is more work, but...

MH

[TDeacon]

HiTech,

Here's an example of the type of adjustment I was trying to describe.  Note the difference between the original sky/ground contrast and that on the right, where the sky (sky only; not the ground) has been darkened to bring it closer in tone to the ground.  I suppose the same effect couild be achieved by having the adjustment apply only to the ground and increasing gamma.  

The net effect for the player is to reduce eyestrain.  In my case, I think it's due to my eyes adjusting to scan the ground when GVing, and then being blasted with the much brighter sky.  When one is playing the game for hours on end, the effect can be painful.  I am not sure how you would implement this change, but as mentioned above, maybe the AH client could adjust the lightness/darkness of the terrain tiles, and then the player could adjust overall gamma to get degree of light appropriate to the room they are playing in.  

 

MH

[bustr]

I have my desktop gamma set to 2.0 while using an aireal photo taken at 12 noon in SoCal on a bright cloudless day looking down at a flying 262 replica over a resivoir for color control as my desktop background. The ground is not a hazy clutter and there is very good sahrp color contrast. Both sides of TDeacons picture look like there is a very high amount of particulate matter and humidity in the air at ground level.

I achive both of those effects via in game gamma. When I want an incredable deep blue sky with bodacious green folage with game 12 noon seeming like  real world July 3-4 pm I run the in game gamma about 1.2-1.4. When I want 12 noon to look like the sun is lighting the world from 90 degrees above at full SUN lumens the same as a cloudless day over the SF Bay at 12 noon, I set gamma to 1.9-2.0.

At 1.4 gamma in game I get great contrast between objects along with colors. But, the part of my animal brain thats been looking at 12 noon for 56 years rejects the overall luminocity as 12 noon anywhere on planet earth other than during a solar eclips or 10 miles down wind of a forest fire. It's more like late afternoon or 10:30 am during the summer in the USA.

If I bump it up to 1.9-2.0 it's like 12noon in San Antonio in July with all of the haze reflecting hot and white killing any contrast on far objects past 600 yards or looking down at a fleeing con against the fuzzy ground clutter. But, my brain says 12 noon luminosity in the real world other wise on a very himid and high air polution day during summer. Why can't we get crystal clear winter days at 12 noon after a storm when the sky is near cloudless?

I think the scale by which 12 noon's universal luminosity is being benchmarked at is low. 12 noon straight down in my cockpit sitting on the runway should be popping all of the pixles touched by the sun's rays with vibrant colors well contrasted out to 1000yds. For the most part 12 noon looks like the AH world sun is running on 2\3 of our real world sun at noon if we want beautiful and nicely contrasted colors. We can have great colors or good brightness and lots of washout.

Raising gamma makes it brighter while killing background contrast, dulling the colors and exponentialy increasing smog and humidity haze on everything. If it's possible one would logicly ask that the formula calculating particulate and moisture density in the air be dialed way down to allow a substantial increase in luminosity while keeping vibrant colors and sharp contrast inside of 5 miles.

A simple test offline is to set gamma at 12 noon to where the brightness looks like real high noon to your brain with the haze and lower contrast colors. Then change the time to 01:00 and see that the sky is dark but everything else has it's own luminosity. Then change the gamma until night looks like night with very littel self luminosity. When you change the time back to 12 noon, the colors are fantastic but, luminosity looks like 4pm to your brain.

[Chilli]

The current typical ground color is much too dark when compared to the sky.  At "high noon" in the Midwestern USA, the perceived brightness of grass is close to the that of the sky.  Not so in AH; here is a screen shot from Trinity TT at "high noon" (the canyons are even worse, and when the "sun" is low in the "sky", worse yet).  In addition to being unrealitic-looking, it is eyestrain city when you are GVing.  Perhaps this fix could be implemented by lightening terrain tile colors?  

(BTW, I realize that monitors allow a certain degree of contrast adjustment.  The problem with that work-around is that it only goes so far, and it reduces the contrast between the different ground terrain features as well, making everything look unrealistically flat and making it hard to see things on the ground.  To clarify, this request refers to contrast between the sky overall and the ground overall).  

(Image removed from quote.)

MH

I re-read your OP above, and see now that your difficulty was not in sighting vehicles, but rather that after looking over the terrain the shift in brightness of the sky produces eye strain. 

If your wish should be granted I would ask that it be implemented as a level of detail addition.  Basically things closer would be lighter.  That would reduce the amount of pupil dilation that I assume is causing the discomfort when focusing back and forth between dark and bright areas, because the immediate surroundings (on the ground) would already be close to the brightness of the sky which corresponds to your wish.  As a level of detail addition, terrains will maintain their current look and feel from greater distances.

I suppose I went on a tangent about vehicle sighting, but I think the discussion is still relevant due to the excessive gamma brightness and lack of contrast in both of your screenshots, even including your preferred end result.  My eyestrain comes from any combat facing a low angle sun, and low level of contrast.

Snip.....
I think the scale by which 12 noon's universal luminosity is being benchmarked at is low. 12 noon straight down in my cockpit sitting on the runway should be popping all of the pixles touched by the sun's rays with vibrant colors well contrasted out to 1000yds. For the most part 12 noon looks like the AH world sun is running on 2\3 of our real world sun at noon if we want beautiful and nicely contrasted colors. We can have great colors or good brightness and lots of washout.

Raising gamma makes it brighter while killing background contrast, dulling the colors and exponentialy increasing smog and humidity haze on everything. If it's possible one would logicly ask that the formula calculating particulate and moisture density in the air be dialed way down to allow a substantial increase in luminosity while keeping vibrant colors and sharp contrast inside of 5 miles.

It seems that Bustr has wonderfully articulated the point where we all agree above.

Chilli,

I thought if one turned on all the bump mapping and pushed the environment slider full left everyones fighters would resolve in the kind of detail you adjusted with photoshop just a tad less shiney.  <<< That tiny bit of shininess is actually a small bump in the contrast and IS the missing ingredient IMHO- ChiLLi.

Tested that just now offline with a D40 in default silver skin. It's beuootiful and my sitting still frame rate on the runway is 23. But, it loooks COOOOOLLLLLL. resolves great from F3 mode against the hill behind it.

So maybe the OP needs a newer bigger Hulkier PC. <<< Not necessarily so.  If contrast on objects was a global (coad) adjustment it might involve little or no change in resources or framerate.  I am hoping that such adjustment would be the quicker fix with objects that already contain "materials" files - ChiLLi.

[hitech]

go off line, go into arena settings, change the SkyColor[Day] rgb value.

Write down the number that you like and post it.

The change you ask for would amount to nothing but us going into the arena and changing it to the same.

HiTech

[Wraith_TMS]

I propose the following to achieve the OP’s desired result, as I see it:   What’s needed is to give more control to the individual user than what we currently have.  Right now, only the gamma slider control is available.  Therefore I believe what’s needed—sorry HTC, I know it means more coding—is a new pane or a new sub-dialog in the Graphics Options pane.  Call it “Color Management” or something along those lines, and add the ability to control the following items with separate sliders:

Brightness
Contrast
Gamma (move it from its present position)
Hue
Saturation

Provide a side-by-side Before and After preview, so the user can compare the current or default setting to new settings in real time as changes are made.  Add a Save button so these color settings can be saved to the Settings folder, just like we can with stick mappings, and add a Reset or Default button, in case we really screw something up.     Most image editing software offer such color correction capabilities, so what I suggest is fairly common in layout and utility.  Finally, what I'm proposing should be available for the user's online world view, not just for offline mode. 

I, like some others, have terrible eyesight—I’m lucky I can still see anything at all—so I really sympathize with the OP’s issue.  However, improving things may not be as easy as simply tweaking the gamma or the sky color.  I recently asked for a minor lightening of the sky color in another thread and no one seemed to agree.  That’s fair enough; in retrospect, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," or as Heinlein once said, “one man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh.”   So, although I understand and sympathize with the OP’s request, I don’t think that simply darkening the tone of the sky may suit everyone else's tastes.   

All matter we can see generates albedo and that’s different for different types of matter and materials.  That is why some things bounce more light than others; even dirt and bark has some albedo.  Everything in the real world has albedo, and thus add to the overall ambient lighting and general luminescence of our real-life environment.  There’re other factors too: specularity, transmittance, translucence, reflectance... light bouncing off secondary (and tertiary, etc.) sources and surfaces.  Then there's the fact that our eyes are geared to view the real world with these factors in play.  That’s why the real world looks so different than what the game can represent.  Additionally, these factors are also arguably very subjective, so that dealing with the current game's ability to generate even a few of these factors is tricky, to say the least.  I understand that, even if HTC could code such things, given the game’s present technology, it would probably melt practically everyone’s computers dealing with just a few of those factors in real time.  There are so many factors; they surely can’t be dealt with easily.  However, a few more controls means more options for users.  If my suggestion above is too labor-intensive, then at a minimum, at least adding the ability to separately control contrast, beyond just gamma, might be a stop-gap solution.

It may be more work for HTC, but what I proposed will give individuals the ability to control/set the game worldview closer to their personal ideal or needs.  Perhaps it's not a perfect solution, but the end result will be a better overall user experience, and that can't be a bad thing.   

FWIW, 

...

[bustr]

I'm all for adding in game "Brightness" and "Contrast" sliders to enhance the "Gamma" slider. Otherwise I have to tab out of the game and adjust that from the desktop controls. Depending on the map I change my desktop gamma between 1.8 and 2.0. then adjust the in game gamma. NDisles offline just never seems to have a realistic bright 12 noon untill I make it look like 1960's San Antonio haze on a humid day in June.

Some of the newer maps have pretty good 12 noon light. I would still like to balance the ingame bright\contrast in support of the gamma without hopping out to the desktop. With so many different eyes looking at so much different hardware and quality of active presentation. Why dosen't the game by this late date 13 years in have the two additional video controls? If they can represent a real danger of CTD to us I understand not having them. Or is this like rear view mirrors and players with superior hardware will benifit exponentialy to those with lesser hardware?

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Hey George can you see that Tiger in those trees about 1k to your left.

Mike quit showing off what $5000.00 will build you for this kiddy game. And no, I'm not on zoom. It just looks like hazy tree pixels from here.
 
Common George I'm watching his turret turn towards you.

So Mike, if you can see him why don't you shoot him.

HuH, sorry George, I bailed out and walked over to see what you were doing

Mike:..  

[Wraith_TMS]

I'm all for adding in game "Brightness" and "Contrast" sliders to enhance the "Gamma" slider. Otherwise I have to tab out of the game and adjust that from the desktop controls. Depending on the map I change my desktop gamma between 1.8 and 2.0. then adjust the in game gamma. NDisles offline just never seems to have a realistic bright 12 noon untill I make it look like 1960's San Antonio haze on a humid day in June.

Some of the newer maps have pretty good 12 noon light. I would still like to balance the ingame bright\contrast in support of the gamma without hopping out to the desktop. With so many different eyes looking at so much different hardware and quality of active presentation. Why dosen't the game by this late date 13 years in have the two additional video controls?

Buster, you make a good point, which I didn't bring up in my previous post because I'd have ended up writing a book length "treatise."   Some of the contrast/brightness differences could possibly be inherent to the material colors a given map maker may have chosen for their terrains.  I'm no map maker, so I'm not sure, but I think they do have some choices in such things when they're creating their map tiles.  Also, the terrain makers themselves may be creating their maps on uncalibrated monitors, so that the colors they saw or chose when creating the map wouldn't necessarily look quite the same for the end-users.  In other words they may be looking a color that is "brown" to them, but slightly different to someone else who is using another uncalibrated monitor, or even a monitor that's been color calibrated.  As an afterthought, this same phenomena may be applicable to differences in skin materials.

Thus, giving us in-game controls to adjust contrast, brightness, hue and saturation, along with the gamma, would go a long way toward adjusting for such differences between maps (or skins), quickly and without the tedium of trying to jump in and out of the game to test out a setting each time.  Personally, I agree that we should have such a capability; particularly as the game's visuals continue to improve.

I don't think it would give anyone unfair advantages though, since these are simply color-related controls, not something based on a particular gfx card's rendering capabilities. Even the most basic cards should ably handle a contrast or brightness change, since they're inherently no more taxing to a system than is changing gamma, I'd guess.   

As an addendum to my idea, maybe we could add also the capability to create more than one "Color Management" profile or mode.  So that if a map comes up in the rotation that has inferior contrast/brightness values to the previous map, we could switch out the color profile for one more suited for that map, as we can with stick map modes.

 

...

[Chilli]

HiTech, oh wise one    Color Sky [Dusk] = 00D4B4A2 (I presume this is the default for Baltic terrain).  Otherwise we have no actual comparison due to the individual desktop settings (as discussed by Bustr and Wraith).  Notice I purposely adjusted time of day to Dusk to show the difficulties in adjustment in gamma alone.*  The following Screenshots hopefully will be self explanatory with labels placed below.

Normal Gamma ~1.0*                                             Increased Gamma ~1.4*

Normal Gamma After Contrast and Brightness      Increased Gamma After Contrast and Brightness