Factoring in Visibility

[Slade]

Guys,

As a bit of a followup to the F6F-5 Visibility thread, I was wondering how you guys factor in visibility.

Some may feel superior visibility evens the playing field between two planes.  For instance, where one with less visibility turns well but the other has average turning ability but great visibility.  I know this this generic and full of variables\holes but I think you get my drift.

In this type context, how much do you feel visibility factors in in an encounter?


Thanks for your comments,

Slade  

[Paladin3]

Loose sight, loose fight!

[titanic3]

As long as the back view (2 on numpad) and top view (5 on numpad) is not blocked, doesn't matter.

[RTHolmes]

Loose sight, loose fight!

good vis counts for so much, both for general SA and during a fight. I've liked flying the 109 on the few occasions I have, but wouldnt consider flying it regularly without TrackIR just because the forward views are so restricted by the canopy. same with birdcage canopies - I live or die by getting overshoots rights and the rear view are critical for this.

[Devil 505]

good vis counts for so much, both for general SA and during a fight. I've liked flying the 109 on the few occasions I have, but wouldnt consider flying it regularly without TrackIR just because the forward views are so restricted by the canopy. same with birdcage canopies - I live or die by getting overshoots rights and the rear view are critical for this.

The key for canopies like these it to set your head positions so that the blind spots for one view can be checked in another view angle.

[RTHolmes]

hmmm sounds like another argument for optimal default views - 95% of my views were set up on climbout on a weekend squad sortie, by which time I could barely focus on the screen and certainly wouldnt be allowed to board a real aircraft, even as a passenger

[Krusty]

The key for canopies like these it to set your head positions so that the blind spots for one view can be checked in another view angle.

I think the key is knowing where the enemy is even when you cannot see them. I believe it was Marseille that was really good at this, firing at the enemy when they were under his nose, and so forth. The situational awareness he had was much better than the average pilot of the time. He had to train/educate greener pilots on how to do this.

The key to knowing where the enemy is in a FW or ME is to know where it still is after you lose sight of it.

[titanic3]

I think the key is knowing where the enemy is even when you cannot see them. I believe it was Marseille that was really good at this, firing at the enemy when they were under his nose, and so forth. The situational awareness he had was much better than the average pilot of the time. He had to train/educate greener pilots on how to do this.

The key to knowing where the enemy is in a FW or ME is to know where it still is after you lose sight of it.

Agreed, once you get this skill (which isn't that hard), you can be more focused on other things like other cons, airspeed, or altitude in a fight. Especially useful in a multi-con fight where you only track the most dangerous con yet at the same time, picturing in your head where the other cons are. Against an inferior plane, sometimes I'll be typing and fighting at the same time.

[Letalis]

The (bubble canopy) P47-D25 and F6F are my fav rides.  With enough familiarity, SA depends very little on the type of canopy.  Factors I'd place above basic visibility are:

1. SA  (To include not only spatial and tracking SA, but awareness of relative aircraft performance envelopes)
2. Speed
3. Firepower
4. Toughness
5. Turn
6. Visibility
7. Climb/Acceleration
8. Dive
9. Roll

Of course this is coming from a Jug/F6F jock who caveats this list at the end of his post by saying that having #1 on the list means always rearranging the other 8 in real time



     

[BaldEagl]

Having spent time in every plane and a lot of time in the F6F visibility in combat isn't a problem.  The only real blind spot in the F6F is the dead six view but once the fight starts the opponent's not there unless you're about to die.  It's only a detriment while just flying along as it's relatively easy for someone to sneak onto your low six.

As to 109's and birdcages as long as you're tracking the enemy nothing unexpected is likely to happen in that small space and if it does they usually pop right back into view.

[bozon]

The Hellcat's 6 view is mostly a philosophical problem:
"How can I be sure that there is no enemy on my 6 if I cannot peak and look?"

...
OK, I'll roll and turn a few degrees... taking a peak... adding rudder... No! all clear thank cod.
Lets see, here is a low Spit14 being ganged by 6 chess-mates, I'll join the fun!
Wait! did someone just get on my 6? I just checked 6 seconds ago and there wasn't, but what if he moved there while I was not looking?
OK, I'll roll and turn a few degrees... taking a peak... adding rudder... No! all clear thank cod.
...
Wait!...
OK, I'll roll and turn a few degrees... taking a peak... adding rudder... No! all clear thank cod.
...
Wait!...

and on and on.
The dead 6 spot can drive a man mad even if there is absolutely no way someone could have gotten there since the last time you looked and tracked all bandits around you - but can you be sure?
OK, I'll roll and turn a few degrees... taking a peak... adding rudder... No! all clear thank cod.