Chewie is going to screw up the GAME Again

[gpwurzel]

Lemmings......another AH term, wished I knew what it means cuz you used it 4 or more times in one post . So your saying (hope I get this right, would not want more RUBBISH) if a side plans, has timming of multiple attack wings from multiple bases and hitting more than 1 base this would not be a horde? Question...........how many players make a horde, 1,5,10,20,30, 50? If I PLAN a mission from multiple bases, lets say 3 bases with 10 players each that is 30 players..............that would not be a horde in your eyes?  

If you planned an attack with 30 players, 10 players going to 3 different bases - that would not be a horde, that would be a planned mission. If you take 30 players, take off from 3 bases and join up to attack a single base, that would be a horde. For the record, I was at both bases when this was done in the arena. There were over 40 P51's with a second wave of P47's - for a total of around 88 players - I offered to up to kill em all, but no one answered 

Also for the record, Vet and Chewie are good guys - I was teasing them both during this raid (or whatever you want to call it) - and they were teasing me (and everyone else). Was it fun being jumped by that many planes - for the first couple of passes yep, after that, not so much. Yes, it was put on the boards and called on 200, but its still virtually impossible to defend against 88 planes, in a single or successive waves.

Meh, just a couple of random thoughts,

Wurz

[oTRALFZo]

The game has not changed Fugi..YOU DID.

There was a time I'm sure Fugi used to join horde missions with the goal to reset the map. You then evolved as a player seeking a much better challenge.

Face it, this game has a huge learning curve and can be intimidating for the new guys. I didn't have the patience when I first signed on to seek help in the TA. I dove straight into the cauldron of the MAs. I bombed freindly feilds, dropped troops too low and on the feild got ridiculed a bit, and learned the hard way.

I came to terms by myself that joining hordes was just damn boring. I had to see for myself the map reset time after time after time to the point that there was no point and just didnt care. I could of quit the game at that point and some players do. I chose to find a much more challenging part of the game.

See for youself. Most players that cross the average 3 year threshold that were commonly joining the hordes are now fighting the fight for the most part. Horde squads although extremely annoying, dont last long, but quality squads do.

Let the kiddies play. They horde but who cares??. The more we scream, the further they come to terms to graduate their skills because all they hear is that you are trying to control how they play. They will eventually come to terms.

[oTRALFZo]

Lemmings......another AH term, wished I knew what it means cuz you used it 4 or more times in one post . So your saying (hope I get this right, would not want more RUBBISH) if a side plans, has timming of multiple attack wings from multiple bases and hitting more than 1 base this would not be a horde? Question...........how many players make a horde, 1,5,10,20,30, 50? If I PLAN a mission from multiple bases, lets say 3 bases with 10 players each that is 30 players..............that would not be a horde in your eyes?  

-If your prime focus is to attack by numbers, you are in a horde
-If you or any other player that joined the mission captures the feild with a full or almost full ammo/bomb loadout..you are in a horde.
-(See above) If you or someone else in the mission has no targets so they bomb or shoot fuel tanks..you are in a horde.
- If you have the attitude of " just defend then"..you are in a horde.
-If your mission gets busted and you cry..you WERE in a horde

[ink]

We need a "sarcasm" emoticon 

 I couldn't care less about perks, I have thousands of them but almost never fly perk planes. Fighting in hordes or against hordes isn't fighting. In the horde very few show up to defend, and fighting against a horde isn't fighting as most of the time all you do is dive in a pick a few before you have 15 guys chasing you yelling "mine!, mine!, mine!".

this is where you are wrong....I do not BnZ I fly a KI84 get above the hoard by myself.......and make them come up to me,,,that is the tactic I shoot for, doesn't always happen,sometimes I get there and there is usual one guy above, sometime many more then that...

but what ever man it is fun to have 10-15 guys all trying to get to you while you time your attacks at the right moment.......

far different then what you are thinking.....and incredibly fun

[jimbo71]

WTG

Now go land that assist

[The Fugitive]

Nah, I think you have managed to dig a hole deep enough that you can't see the top anymore. Nice try but you went beyond my expectations even for you in this thread.

Start running your searches, I don't believe I ever said that the old days were perfect. They were better, and missions were more fun because they were diverse. In the Mafia we had a couple dozen set missions. We had one guy who would spend all week working out a plan... lift off times, directions, waypoints, climb speeds, listing who what hit what and so on to run on squad night. It was almost like running in a scenario, but they happened every 30-45 minutes! Yes we had hordes, yes we had HOers and pickers, but not as many. So nights you'd get a few more than normal and a guy would get bent and post. We also had fewer people flying maybe that mattered, but the maps were only the small ones so the population was concentrated so maybe it didn't matter.

Lemmings......another AH term, wished I knew what it means cuz you used it 4 or more times in one post . So your saying (hope I get this right, would not want more RUBBISH) if a side plans, has timming of multiple attack wings from multiple bases and hitting more than 1 base this would not be a horde? Question...........how many players make a horde, 1,5,10,20,30, 50? If I PLAN a mission from multiple bases, lets say 3 bases with 10 players each that is 30 players..............that would not be a horde in your eyes?  

lemmings     plural of lem·ming (Noun)
Noun:   

    1. A small, short-tailed, thickset rodent (Lemmus, Dicrostonyx, and other genera, family Muridae) found in the Arctic tundra. The Norway...
    2.A person who unthinkingly joins a mass movement, esp. a headlong rush to destruction.

I think the bolded section covers lemmings well. Spliting 30 players over 3 bases spreads out the "horde". Now you have 3 fights at 3 base, no longer a horde. Yes with out so many people hitting one base you may no actually capture the base, but if you have some skill, and everyone does their part, 2 out of 3 might capture and your that much ahead in the game of capturing bases. Maybe 10-12 guys to one base as a diversion with no intention of capturing the base, but you hit two others a couple sectors away with an extra goon or 2 to make sure you capture the others.

The game has not changed Fugi..YOU DID.

There was a time I'm sure Fugi used to join horde missions with the goal to reset the map. You then evolved as a player seeking a much better challenge.

Join them! LOL! at time I ran them!  LOL!!

As some people have pointed out at other times in these discussions "extra people just join up, we don't have control over that". Thats where I learned how to take 2 bases at once and try for 3 sometimes. Ask SIK1 and Hap, both were in my squad and ran many a mission with us. While it was cool to grab the base, the most important thing was to keep the missions different, and fun. Could we roll bases? You bet! 11 in 3 hours I think was one of the better nights. NOE yup, we had the "Lightning Strike" mission. hvy 38's that flew with the goon until we hit the radar ring, WEP and grab, flatten the town, and kill anything that upped. Goon would roll in right behind us and capture. I think it was like 3 minutes for our best time from the dar ring. But we would never run it more than once a squad night, why? because it would get boring.

The game use to be about fighting, out witting your opponent, capturing bases and winning the war. We are down to the last two, watered down indeed.  

[The Fugitive]

this is where you are wrong....I do not BnZ I fly a KI84 get above the hoard by myself.......and make them come up to me,,,that is the tactic I shoot for, doesn't always happen,sometimes I get there and there is usual one guy above, sometime many more then that...

but what ever man it is fun to have 10-15 guys all trying to get to you while you time your attacks at the right moment.......

far different then what you are thinking.....and incredibly fun

Thats how most of my fight start out, but with my poor aim eventually there will be a couple that get above me and try to pick me as I work the two of three that climb to me then next thing I know I have that 15 or so guys screamin "Mine!" "Mine!" "Mine!" again! 

[gpwurzel]

Thats how most of my fight start out, but with my poor aim eventually there will be a couple that get above me and try to pick me as I work the two of three that climb to me then next thing I know I have that 15 or so guys screamin "Mine!" "Mine!" "Mine!" again! 

But thats how all my fights end up Fugi, lol, hence my signature!!! Well, that plus I just love fighting from a disadvantage - am I that good - negative ghost rider, do I have fun that way - heck yeah.

Wurz

[HawkerMKII]

Join them! LOL! at time I ran them!  LOL!

Sound like an ex smoker or drinker...."I quit so should everyone else"

[matt]

Start running your searches, I don't believe I ever said that the old days were perfect. They were better, and missions were more fun because they were diverse. In the Mafia we had a couple dozen set missions. We had one guy who would spend all week working out a plan... lift off times, directions, waypoints, climb speeds, listing who what hit what and so on to run on squad night. It was almost like running in a scenario, but they happened every 30-45 minutes! Yes we had hordes, yes we had HOers and pickers, but not as many. So nights you'd get a few more than normal and a guy would get bent and post. We also had fewer people flying maybe that mattered, but the maps were only the small ones so the population was concentrated so maybe it didn't matter.

lemmings     plural of lem·ming (Noun)
Noun:   

    1. A small, short-tailed, thickset rodent (Lemmus, Dicrostonyx, and other genera, family Muridae) found in the Arctic tundra. The Norway...
    2.A person who unthinkingly joins a mass movement, esp. a headlong rush to destruction.

I think the bolded section covers lemmings well. Spliting 30 players over 3 bases spreads out the "horde". Now you have 3 fights at 3 base, no longer a horde. Yes with out so many people hitting one base you may no actually capture the base, but if you have some skill, and everyone does their part, 2 out of 3 might capture and your that much ahead in the game of capturing bases. Maybe 10-12 guys to one base as a diversion with no intention of capturing the base, but you hit two others a couple sectors away with an extra goon or 2 to make sure you capture the others.
 

Join them! LOL! at time I ran them!  LOL!!

As some people have pointed out at other times in these discussions "extra people just join up, we don't have control over that". Thats where I learned how to take 2 bases at once and try for 3 sometimes. Ask SIK1 and Hap, both were in my squad and ran many a mission with us. While it was cool to grab the base, the most important thing was to keep the missions different, and fun. Could we roll bases? You bet! 11 in 3 hours I think was one of the better nights. NOE yup, we had the "Lightning Strike" mission. hvy 38's that flew with the goon until we hit the radar ring, WEP and grab, flatten the town, and kill anything that upped. Goon would roll in right behind us and capture. I think it was like 3 minutes for our best time from the dar ring. But we would never run it more than once a squad night, why? because it would get boring.

The game use to be about fighting, out witting your opponent, capturing bases and winning the war. We are down to the last two, watered down indeed.  

What do you think your DAVID WALES

[Debrody]

Allright, i'll go "Bustr" for now     My opinions:

What is a horde, who are the horders?
   A mass of lemmings who dont want anything else but get the collective WTGs for flattening a vbase with 30 lanc sets and 40 ponies. What they do is NOT combat, and obviously NOT fun to the defenders. They practically do not contact with the enemy, or when they do, they either die in 3 seconds or run like a scared girl. They usually show up where there is no red darbar, no opposition expected. The horders try to avoid every contact with the enemy unless they are in a 5v1+ numerical advantage and usually dont know anything about a "rolling scissors" or an "overshoot". I dont like this kind of mentality cause i cant understand, what is fun in it, where do you get the quality reward for the money you have paid to HTC.

What is "working together"?
   While it might have the same numbers of a horde, its completely different. The players involved are interested in finding opponents and they choose the quality interaction with them. They are running large-scale, sometimes even historical missions to a specific, announced target, so the defenders can get ready, can intercept them and can fight with them. In the past, the Mission of the Month stuff was this kind, a large, escorted, high-alt bomber raid. I found theese events to be just as much fun as an FSO. The players got both the "we are working together" feeling and the "quality interaction", on both sides.

Why i played this game?
    To find action, air combat, push my aircraft to the limits, and do this with other players. I liked to give an opponent a chance, for example, i usually turnfought against spits in a 109. True, many times i went mad and upped a jet, but that was because i got tag-teamed multiple times by the horders. I found fun either in 1v1 duels, 5v5 death matches or 40v40 FSO/scenario high alt operations. Heck, thats how HTC is advertising their game, Air Combat Simulator...  All i can do is to ASK You to play nice, play fair, dont brag like "haha we killed you in a 10v1, you sux ballz dude" or "woowoo we had 30 noe lancs to flatten that vbase, we rock!!" or "i fly at 30k in a pony, pick and run like the wind, im so awesome and yall sux muwhaha", cause thats obviously not good for anyone. Please...  

Thank You.
Mathias

[BaldEagl]

... get above the hoard by myself.......and make them come up to me,,,that is the tactic I shoot for, doesn't always happen,sometimes I get there and there is usual one guy above, sometime many more then that...

but what ever man it is fun to have 10-15 guys all trying to get to you while you time your attacks at the right moment.......

I often use this tactic... to start  ... but almost always end up co-alt or below the horde. 

Other times I just start below all of them  to... umm... save time.   

Either way it's fun.         

[LilMak]

What is "working together"?
   While it might have the same numbers of a horde, its completely different. The players involved are interested in finding opponents and they choose the quality interaction with them. They are running large-scale, sometimes even historical missions to a specific, announced target, so the defenders can get ready, can intercept them and can fight with them. In the past, the Mission of the Month stuff was this kind, a large, escorted, high-alt bomber raid. I found theese events to be just as much fun as an FSO. The players got both the "we are working together" feeling and the "quality interaction", on both sides.


Thank You.
Mathias

Seem that this is what they did in this particular instance. They announced what they were doing here and 200. This is why I commended them in this thread. I have distaste for hordes almost as much as you but I do enjoy fighting against them if I can get a window to meet them before the get to their destination. Once they're on top of a base, there's not much that can be done except circle and hope a few will break off to fight ya. I ran into a spread out horde run a month or so ago. It was pure luck that I happened to be in a position to fight (tons of alt) while alone against the mass. I single handedly killed 6 of their bombers and 3 fighters while making my way to their base. When I got there I still had enough ammo to kill their ord but took a fuel hit from ack. I died with 9 in the bag and they still took my base. It was a great run in spite of not being able to land it.

Why was this still fun in spite of being hopelessly outnumbered with no chance to prevent them from their goal? I simply had a chance to fight. Typical hordes count on very little resistance till it's too late to defend. This is a flaw created by the close proximity of bases in the MA. It favors large attacking groups because they have the advantage of time to gather and launch as one whereas defenders are usually doing something else when the darbar shows up and have little reaction time. Then you have a few guys fighting insurmountable odds in numbers while starting from a position of disadvantage. Many don't bother to fight the hordes simply because it gets old seeing 7 guys on your six and go elsewhere. Then you have hordes passing each other as they each attack undefended territory.

So I commend these guys for announcing their intentions and giving the enemy a chance (however slim) to put up a fight. My only reccomendation is that they try some more challenging plane selections when the missions get deep (20+). Try thirty A20s or Stukas instead of lancs and maybe p40s or 109fs instead of p-51s.

[uptown]

I wonder what the Germans thought when they looked out at the water at Normady on the morning of the D-Day invasion. Seeing ships as far as the eye could see and looking up and seeing 100s upon 100s of C47s.
I wonder what they thought watching 1000s of Allied bombers and fighters flying over Berlin in 45'.


Then there was Japan...... "ahh no worries, it's just one B29"   


My suggestion to my fellow squaddie TheFugitive, we should start recruiting guys into the 39th to meet the locus horde head on....or start spending our perk points on B29s.    

[matt]

I wonder what the Germans thought when they looked out at the water at Normady on the morning of the D-Day invasion. Seeing ships as far as the eye could see and looking up and seeing 100s upon 100s of C47s.
I wonder what they thought watching 1000s of Allied bombers and fighters flying over Berlin in 45'.


Then there was Japan...... "ahh no worries, it's just one B29"   


My suggestion to my fellow squaddie TheFugitive, we should start recruiting guys into the 39th to meet the locus horde head on....or start spending our perk points on B29s.    

They were thinking this is how Americans ruined the war.