Gun control laws do they work ?

[hlbly]

     The US is always pointed out as the leader in gun violence . Seems we are the only place on earth were we have these mass shootings . Or are we ? I have just spent about 5 minutes looking up mass shootings in Europe .  1989 at the Raumanmeri school in Rauma ,  Jokela in 2007 and Kauhajoki in 2008 . Three of them in Finland . School shootings at that . I never even heard of these . I have not looked into the gun laws in Finland yet . When I started this thread I wanted to address the issue of the effectiveness of gun control laws . Will tough laws stop the mass murders ? Will they just switch to a different method of attack ? Something impossible to control ? Perhaps bombs ? I already knew about the Norway attacks . I looked at Norwegian gun laws . Very strict is the only way I can think of to describe them . Well maybe ineffective might apply as well . I know some people are going to immediately think I am indoctrinated and ultra conservative . Sorry to disappoint but I am very middle of the road politically . I despise the bi partisan bickering in this country . I think both sides have some pretty idiotic notions as well . Either side can disgust me when they want to do away with the Constitution . I think any entity that wants to attack constitutional rights should be resisted . Both sides are more than willing to do so . I will cite an example for each side . Conservatives brought us the Patriot Act ,and its laundry list of circumventions of the Bill of Rights . The liberals do love their attacks on the second amendment . Now I know the 2a was put there to protect us from the possibility of an oppressive government . Anyone that thinks differently needs to read it ,and remember why we revolted from England . I have only recently bought two personal weapons . The last time I owned a weapon was 30+ years before .  I used them for hunting . Something I lost my taste for a long time ago . To me they were dirty dangerous tools I no longer had a need for . What changed my mind was a gang that is very strong around here started in Oregon prisons . The European Kindred . They do love a good home invasion robbery . They prefer to hit meth dealers but do not limit themselves . The local police being unable to solve any of them . Here is a link to the latest .

 http://lebanon-express.com/news/local/still-no-arrests-in-saturday-shootings/article_5f11a480-e72c-11e1-8dda-001a4bcf887a.html

   I found out exactly what happened  . The two shot each other . The 53 year old is a small time meth dealer  . The 28 yo a member of the EK . Him and another member of the EK had robbed this guy at gunpoint a month earlier so the 53 yo armed himself . When he had recovered from the earlier robbery financially the EK decided he was a nice easy victim that did not report them . Since he was "rolling" again it was time to "tax" him again . My investigative technique . A 20 dollar bill and a discreet conversation with some one I went to school with and is now a meth head . EK is fairly well organized but operational security is not a strong point with them . This stuff and the 2004??? Supreme Court decision in Castle Rock v Gonzales stating the police have no legal obligation to protect citizens has forced me to arm myself  . I now own an Ithaca 1911A1 and a Mossburg 12 gauge . I have regained my proficiency with my old friend the 1911A1 and rediscovered shooting clay pigeons is just a lot of fun . I pray to God I never have to point either at a living creature . Something I promised myself I would never do again after ETS . I do need a little advice on what is a good round for the 12 gauge for home defense . Any suggestions ?

[Lusche]

And stay tuned for the next question: Rule #14, does it work?

 

[RngFndr]

If you have neighbors close, or live in an Apartment of some kind,
2-3/4inch #4 buckshot..

If you are wide open, the popular choice is,
3inch #00 Buckshot..

Personally I have good fire discipline, so I like
3inch #000 buckshot myself!

Might wanna consider rubber buckshot too..
As a primer.. I keep Rubber in the chamber,
and won't hesitate to use it.. But the 2nd
round is Pure Death..

[ozrocker]

IN


                                                                                                                                              Oz

[shotgunneeley]

Saw back during the Olympics that British tennis star Andy Murray was a student during the 1996 "Dunblane School Massacre" in Scotland. 17 children were killed by a lone gunman.

[Slate]

  Fix the Government and Financial corruption and people can live a decent life without getting desperate for money.

   Why are we fascinated with horror so the media drags these stories out and makes infamous criminals. The ultimate "look at me" for the deranged.
 
  There will still be wackos out there that will attack with anything they can get thier hands on so arm the honest Citizen.
   
  Police are only there to pick up the pieces (or Bodies) at crime scenes.

   

[VonMessa]

  Fix the Government and Financial corruption and people can live a decent life without getting desperate for money.

   Why are we fascinated with horror so the media drags these stories out and makes infamous criminals. The ultimate "look at me" for the deranged.
 
  There will still be wackos out there that will attack with anything they can get thier hands on so arm the honest Citizen.
   
  Police are only there to pick up the pieces (or Bodies) at crime scenes.

   

Police are legally bound to enforce that law.

I do not think that there is a LEO out there that would not protect a citizen, if they were present when the citizen needed protecting.

Unfortunately, they cannot always be there exactly at the moment that they are needed.

[grizz441]

    The US is always pointed out as the leader in gun violence . Seems we are the only place on earth were we have these mass shootings . Or are we ? I have just spent about 5 minutes looking up mass shootings in Europe .  1989 at the Raumanmeri school in Rauma ,  Jokela in 2007 and Kauhajoki in 2008 . Three of them in Finland . School shootings at that . I never even heard of these . I have not looked into the gun laws in Finland yet . When I started this thread I wanted to address the issue of the effectiveness of gun control laws . Will tough laws stop the mass murders ? Will they just switch to a different method of attack ? Something impossible to control ? Perhaps bombs ? I already knew about the Norway attacks . I looked at Norwegian gun laws . Very strict is the only way I can think of to describe them . Well maybe ineffective might apply as well . I know some people are going to immediately think I am indoctrinated and ultra conservative . Sorry to disappoint but I am very middle of the road politically . I despise the bi partisan bickering in this country . I think both sides have some pretty idiotic notions as well . Either side can disgust me when they want to do away with the Constitution . I think any entity that wants to attack constitutional rights should be resisted . Both sides are more than willing to do so . I will cite an example for each side . Conservatives brought us the Patriot Act ,and its laundry list of circumventions of the Bill of Rights . The liberals do love their attacks on the second amendment . Now I know the 2a was put there to protect us from the possibility of an oppressive government . Anyone that thinks differently needs to read it ,and remember why we revolted from England . I have only recently bought two personal weapons . The last time I owned a weapon was 30+ years before .  I used them for hunting . Something I lost my taste for a long time ago . To me they were dirty dangerous tools I no longer had a need for . What changed my mind was a gang that is very strong around here started in Oregon prisons . The European Kindred . They do love a good home invasion robbery . They prefer to hit meth dealers but do not limit themselves . The local police being unable to solve any of them . Here is a link to the latest .

 http://lebanon-express.com/news/local/still-no-arrests-in-saturday-shootings/article_5f11a480-e72c-11e1-8dda-001a4bcf887a.html

   I found out exactly what happened  . The two shot each other . The 53 year old is a small time meth dealer  . The 28 yo a member of the EK . Him and another member of the EK had robbed this guy at gunpoint a month earlier so the 53 yo armed himself . When he had recovered from the earlier robbery financially the EK decided he was a nice easy victim that did not report them . Since he was "rolling" again it was time to "tax" him again . My investigative technique . A 20 dollar bill and a discreet conversation with some one I went to school with and is now a meth head . EK is fairly well organized but operational security is not a strong point with them . This stuff and the 2004??? Supreme Court decision in Castle Rock v Gonzales stating the police have no legal obligation to protect citizens has forced me to arm myself  . I now own an Ithaca 1911A1 and a Mossburg 12 gauge . I have regained my proficiency with my old friend the 1911A1 and rediscovered shooting clay pigeons is just a lot of fun . I pray to God I never have to point either at a living creature . Something I promised myself I would never do again after ETS . I do need a little advice on what is a good round for the 12 gauge for home defense . Any suggestions ?

I'm a fan of the 2nd amendment, but I am kind of on the fence in regards to where you draw the line for civilians.  Automatic weapons obviously were not invented when the constitution was drafted.  What if they were around back then, and there were mass shootings where dozens were left dead?  I wonder if our Forefathers would have put restrictions on them.  On the other hand, it's not the weapon that is doing the killing but the person, BUT, an automatic weapon enables them to kill many in a short period of time.  I think a person should be able to own a semi automatic weapon if it suites their fancy for whatever reason, but there needs to be more rigorous screening, or training process, which includes a psychiatric evaluation.  If you get all the paperwork done, signatures, training program, you can get one.  If you fail the psychiatric screening you can try again in a year.

I'm a fan of the principles of the patriot act.

In general in regards to the parties I find party philosophies hypocritical to their cores.  The right lives and breathes on "keeping the government out of personal lives", yet they want excessive governement regulation into peoples personal lives when it comes to social issues such as abortion and gay marriage.  On the other hand, the left lives and breathes on more government, more regulation to "take care of the people" yet want little to no government regulation on issues such as the patriot act. 

[cpxxx]

My own opinion is that guns and gun laws are something of red herring.  The reality is that the use of violence whether it be guns or any other weapon is a reflection of the society you live in. The OP has bought two guns for protection and that is the real problem. The issue isn't guns but that he feel he needs a gun to protect himself and his family. That's the issue that needs to be addressed. All to often that gets ignored in arguments over gun laws.

In most of America, I'm sure and certainly in most European countries most people don't feel the need to own a gun for protection, Sport yes, fun yes. Protection? A bonus maybe.

Gun massacres attract the publicity but in the overall scheme of things they're not representative. They seem more common in the US no doubt because of the relative ease of availability of firearms. There is a pattern among the perpetrators, misfits who reach a breaking point. Not sure how you you can legislate for that. The British introduced draconian gun laws after Dunblane in a knee jerk reaction to that.  It did nothing to reduce gun crime in Britain. Criminals don't apply for a licence.

What really needs to happen is that people who live in 'riskier' areas should be pushing their local authorities and politicians to do something about and for those people to actually address the problem.

Probably wishful thinking.

[zack1234]

 Fix the Government and Financial corruption and people can live a decent life without getting desperate for money.

   Why are we fascinated with horror so the media drags these stories out and makes infamous criminals. The ultimate "look at me" for the deranged.
 
  There will still be wackos out there that will attack with anything they can get their hands on so arm the honest Citizen.
  
  Police are only there to pick up the pieces (or Bodies) at crime scenes.

  

Goodness me a sensible comment

You must have English in your family

The the war of independence was because you were ungrateful for the English defending you from the French


CPXX is talking sense as well, this thread needs closing

[Jayhawk]

I'm a fan of the 2nd amendment, but I am kind of on the fence in regards to where you draw the line for civilians.  Automatic weapons obviously were not invented when the constitution was drafted.  What if they were around back then, and there were mass shootings where dozens were left dead?

Televisions and computers weren't around when the constitution was drafted, should we be able to limit the first amendment on those devices?  

I'm really just playing devil's advocate, there has to be a line somewhere, but a lot of things have changed since the constitution was written.  

[zack1234]

Why don't we chip eveyone in the world so we know where they are and can stop them being naughty

I don't need chipping becaue I am Prince Philip of Norway and ride a white pony called Big Boy

[grizz441]

Televisions and computers weren't around when the constitution was drafted, should we be able to limit the first amendment on those devices?  

I'm really just playing devil's advocate, there has to be a line somewhere, but a lot of things have changed since the constitution was written.  

Yep.  If an issue arose were it was deemed necessary by the citizens of this country, then yes.  My point is, the constitution is not a commandment from god.  It was made by regular men, in the context of their way of life at the time.  There have been adjustments made to it throughout US history.

[grizz441]

Why don't we chip eveyone in the world so we know where they are and can stop them being naughty

I don't need chipping becaue I am Prince Philip of Norway and ride a white pony called Big Boy

Hey lets go there.  I think all parolee's should be chipped.

[hlbly]

I'm a fan of the 2nd amendment, but I am kind of on the fence in regards to where you draw the line for civilians.  Automatic weapons obviously were not invented when the constitution was drafted.  What if they were around back then, and there were mass shootings where dozens were left dead?  I wonder if our Forefathers would have put restrictions on them.  On the other hand, it's not the weapon that is doing the killing but the person, BUT, an automatic weapon enables them to kill many in a short period of time.  I think a person should be able to own a semi automatic weapon if it suites their fancy for whatever reason, but there needs to be more rigorous screening, or training process, which includes a psychiatric evaluation.  If you get all the paperwork done, signatures, training program, you can get one.  If you fail the psychiatric screening you can try again in a year.

I'm a fan of the principles of the patriot act.

In general in regards to the parties I find party philosophies hypocritical to their cores.  The right lives and breathes on "keeping the government out of personal lives", yet they want excessive government regulation into peoples personal lives when it comes to social issues such as abortion and gay marriage.  On the other hand, the left lives and breathes on more government, more regulation to "take care of the people" yet want little to no government regulation on issues such as the patriot act. 

Grizz I think that the founding fathers intended for the people to be able to arm themselves on the same basic level as the government can arm its personal .  You are right though they could not have known the increase in lethality that was coming in the 20th century .