Gun control laws do they work ?

[RTHolmes]

(Also, look at Norway. 69 kids dead on an island because noone had a gun, that could have been stopped)

Norwegians own loads of guns; rifles, shotguns and handguns. iirc the only guns banned are fully automatic. sound familiar?

They also have conscription, so almost everybody has had firearms training.

[danny76]

Norwegians own loads of guns; rifles, shotguns and handguns. iirc the only guns banned are fully automatic. sound familiar?

They also have conscription, so almost everybody has had firearms training.

And instilled DISCIPLINE

[hlbly]

hlbly the truth about gun control, is that more or less gun laws wont stop the law abiding idiot that one day wakes up and decides to show up at some place and shoot as many people as he can.

we can only wonder if those people in new york if they had been carrying a gun and shot back what would have happened. more victims?  I mean if they police who is supposed to be highly trained can open fire and shoot 9 bystanders, what would have happened in Colorado if some of those in the theater would have had guns themselves.  how many more would have gotten shot?

I am all for the second amendment but lately it makes me wonder who should I be more concerned with,  police, law abiding citizens going postal, or criminals.



semp

Both of those books show statistically that you are wrong . A private citizen that employs a gun in that situation faces way heavier consequences than those police officers will . That being said . Private citizens use guns to stop crimes at the same rate that guns are used to commit crimes . The number of bystanders shot by them ? Almost nil .  Lott compares it too law enforcements performance . You might be surprised by the numbers . I know I was . Until this thread got me digging around . My only objection was based on the second amendment . In 7th grade civics I had decided that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right . My teacher gave me one of 2 C's I ever got in my life . The only one that was not deserved too because I would not alter my stance . He was wanting me not to question what he was trying to teach by rote . I was a very lucky kid . My dad taught me critical thinking . He would give me facts and told me to make up my own mind what they meant . I even asked him if I should cave and get my A . He told me . That I needed to decide what was meant after careful analysis of all information . He refused to tell me what his opinion was and forbade me from asking any of the neighbors . He knew I was going to go ask Capt. Walk somehow . At 80 he still delights in learning . I wonder if it is what keeps some mentally sharp . The whole point of that last bit ? I was pretty much middle of the road on this subject . I thought cop killer bullets should be illegal No one needed semi automatic weapons . Hand guns were not needed either . As long as we could keep our long arms the 2a was covered . Everyone that participated made me look deeper into the subject .  The more I learned the more surprised I was . I am not going to cite them all but a couple of ones that surprised me . 1 Cop killer bullets have never killed a cop . I don't know why I assumed they had other than teachers and press pounding it into my head . No excuse though . 2 The slippery slope argument used by the gun nut NRA is true . Learned that researching what the founding fathers intent was with the 2nd amendment was . I was already convinced that my original statement in this thread was right . When Silat  posted there was no proof that . Research into the contemporary legal opinions from the founding fathers era confirmed it . That lead me to Lott .
BTW i just ordered Klecks book . If hard core liberal can change his mind after extensive research ..... I encourage all of the proponents of gun control to at least look at what can be had free off the net .

[danny76]

Surprised nobody had quoted, 'those who hammer their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't'

[hlbly]

Surprised nobody had quoted, 'those who hammer their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't'

Somebody just did 

[zack1234]

And instilled DISCIPLINE

I don't understand ?

Nordic countries have the highest standard of living in the Western World and the most infantile criminal system in the world. And a high rate of mental problems per capita.

That bloke on Norway was not very disciplined he could not control his selfish,opinionated,spoilt, privileged urges and opinions.

If you have to work 12 hour night shifts for 20 years to pay the bills you generally dont have the time or the inclination to force your will on anyone.

Its fact that the majority of these serial killers are not from poorer parts of society.

[hlbly]

Research,probablity and statistics and scientific anaylsis is irrelevnt and only there to keep the social elites and academics in positions of power and prestige, we all know right from wrong and know that the state in incapable of protecting its less wealthy citizens. (if they could this thread would not exist)

If you have a gun and some else has a gun  they will keep away from you if they are crimminals and if they don't you get defend yourself regardsless of results. (fact)

If you don't have a gun someone who has a gun will NOT keep away from you if they are a crimminals and you cannot defend yourself. (fact)

Justifing a point of view using statisics and analysis is just the old saying "Can't see the wood for the trees" "Hiding common sense) The elites don't like common sense, they would all be out of jobs. (Foucoult written lots on the subject)

We all know that crimminals do what they do because they "CAN" :)Love you bro but I disagree . I had partially bitten into what was being said about gun control . Certain types are ok to ban . No one needs to go running around with a hidden gun . If you got to hide some thing then you know its wrong . The slippery slope is just NRA nuts wanting to own everything from a pea shooter to 120mm smooth bore . Just gun nut hype . The statistical information from Lott and Kleck changed my mind to a great deal . The only time I am wary of statistics is when methodology won't be explained or when sources won't be given . Learned my lesson on that with the "ER's see an increase of 100,000 women that are victims of domestic violence on super bowl Sunday" statistic cited by women's rights groups . I felt a bit of self loathing because I couldn't quit watching it ,even though I knew it could turn me into a violent beast .

[hlbly]

I don't understand ?

Nordic countries have the highest standard of living in the Western World and the most infantile criminal system in the world. And a high rate of mental problems per capita.

That bloke on Norway was not very disciplined he could not control his selfish,opinionated,spoilt, privileged urges and opinions.

If you have to work 12 hour night shifts for 20 years to pay the bills you generally dont have the time or the inclination to force your will on anyone.

Its fact that the majority of these serial killers are not from poorer parts of society.

Hmmm I did not know that he was well to do . My question was how did the Colorado man an unemployed mentally unstable individual afford his expensive fire arms 2 glocks a  remington shotgun an S&W AR-15 . I am going to go google the prices on those .Looks like around 4500.00 conservatively  . Unemployed living in a room . How did he afford it ? I bought my Mossburg 12 ga and Ithaca 1911A1 because I could not afford a Colt and a Winchester . No one is asking this question .

[zack1234]

Credit cards.

[Slash27]

wow, arent you repeating what I said?




semp

   of course a law abiding citizen will never commit a crime.  just go on the freeway and pretend that all those guys going above the speed limit aren't breaking the laws.  of course if you crash and kill somebody then that means you were a criminal to begin with after all a law abiding citizen like you will never go above the speed limit.  you can pretend all you want that only career criminals commit crimes.



semp

What do you do for a living?

[hlbly]

Credit cards.

Didn't think of that . I don't use them . Total of my debt 0.00 . Total of my assets ....not much more lol . Hmmm wait a second . 6,000 rounds of ammo and body armor too . How much credit can a guy get that has only worked as a summer camp counselor ?

[zack1234]

7 credit cards = lots of coin

[TonyJoey]

Hlbly- Why is it that world-renowned economists can look at a set of statistics and come up with almost opposite conclusions? Why do some think the stimulus was good or even too small, while others think that it only served to hurt the economy? Why do some think more government spending is the solution, while others think less? These people are university professors, some Nobel Prize winners, who come up with wildly different conclusions.

There are hundreds of books and papers on both sides of the issue of gun control, well researched, backed up with statistics and facts. And yet they come up with wildly different soutions. My point is that you cannot, for the sake of intellectual honesty, just look at one or two papers that support your side and call it a day. If you want to start posting papers that "prove" your position, then don't be surprised when I post a couple of papers  that "prove" my assertion. Gun politics would be a lot different if the statistics were as one-sided as you seem to believe.

[zack1234]

That bloke from Norway's  father and mother were diplomats.

Spoilt selfish people tend to have personality disorders.

[LCADolby]

Best gun control laws are Swiss.