College or Trade school

[daddog]

Thought I would share this with the community since I posted the same in our squad forums. It is an e-mail I received from a friend. I know some of you have college age children or will soon. Some maybe have grand children on their way to college.

Give this some serious thought because it has significant merit IMHO. I have watched the cost of college sky rocket in the past 10 years to the point I seriously question the value of college in the long run. I have one starting college and 3 more to go. You bet I am thinking about this stuff. My oldest was thinking Veterinary for years. Now she will just go for her Vet Tech license. If she wants to go the extra mile later on she still can, but the debt she will incur if she becomes a Vet will be enormous.

 

About two years ago, I got a call from a dear college friend. We chatted for a long time, catching up on each others’ lives. Among the news was that her son Tim had just graduated from college with a degree in civil engineering.
“That’s wonderful!” I said. “Where is he working?”
There was a short silence. “Well, actually, he’s working at the gardening department of Home Depot,” she admitted. “He couldn’t find a job as a civil engineer.”
This conversation stayed with me because it illustrates the problems so many highly qualified, highly educated college graduates are facing in today’s job market. Competition for employment is intense in a depressed economy, and many young people are unable to fulfill their dreams and realize their ambitions.
This is why an article on soaring trade school enrollment caught my eye. The article discusses how much in demand skilled workers have become, with paychecks comparable or exceeding those with college degrees. The students attending these schools range from young people right out of high school to older unemployed college-educated workers returning to school to learn a trade.
Once upon a time it was simple: Like clockwork, ambitious kids graduated from high school, attended the college or university of their choice, graduated, found a job in their field and worked steadily throughout their adult years.
This recession (some call it a depression) has changed all that. Too many ambitious college-educated young people emerge into a workforce that cannot support them and does not want them. Even before the 2008 market crash, there was a glut of overly degreed workers. And now we hear sad stories all over the nation every June about how newly minted graduates fight for jobs as baristas at Starbucks. Meanwhile their earning potential is crippled – crippled, often for life – by crushing student loan debt.
But it’s more than just a depressed economy. Over the last few decades, the media, government and of course universities have convinced us that the only way to be happy, productive and successful is to get a college degree in … anything. Those who opted for vocational school were considered second-class citizens.
To fulfill their expectations, students take out tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans to get degrees in Equality Studies or English Literature, only to discover upon graduation that there are few jobs in those areas. Their ego might be boosted, but not their earnings potential.
I come from a family that values education to the nth degree. My parents sacrificed and went deeply into debt to send their children to college. Now that they’re older, they simply cannot fathom that the situation has changed for their grandchildren and that the single-minded pursuit of a degree may no longer be the best option in today’s economy. The world my parents grew up in is gone. With the current job market, I feel it is irresponsible to push college on young people without regard to their prospects for employment after graduation.
This is the issue facing our 16-year-old daughter, who expressed a strong interest in two separate fields of study: library science and nannying. She loves books, and she loves children. What to do?
I explained that most librarians are employed by county governments, and library funding has been cut drastically by financially strapped counties all over the nation. Whereas her targeted nanny school has a long waiting list of families seeking accredited nannies. Our daughter decided that her prospects for employment are much higher as an accredited nanny than as a degreed librarian.
To young people thinking about their future, I urge you to ask yourself this question: Are you going to college because you have a burning career ambition only a college degree will fulfill? Or are you going to college because you’re “supposed” to, even though you haven’t yet decided on a field of study?
My husband and I – who both have master’s degrees in the sciences but who make our living with a woodcraft business – met dozens of people during our college years who hadn’t declared a major. Their goals were vague. They were simply in college because it was the thing to do, and it was expected of them.
But college costs have soared, making such vague goals a mighty pricey thing. According to CNNMoney, “For more than two decades, colleges and universities across the country have been jacking up tuition at a faster rate than costs have risen on any other major product or service – four times faster than the overall inflation rate and faster even than increases in the price of gasoline or health care. The result: After adjusting for financial aid, the amount families pay for college has skyrocketed 439 percent since 1982.”
Whereas my daughter can emerge from nanny school, credentialed and qualified, for significantly less than $10,000. Her employment prospects are near 100 percent, and her earning potential is tremendous.
My friend’s son chose the field of civil engineering because he’s a responsible young man who was trying to maximize his earning potential in order to one day support a family. It was not necessarily because of his burning desire to be a civil engineer. Ironically he now feels he can’t pursue marriage until such time as his job situation improves.
For young people today, I urge you to realistically consider your future based on the jobs market versus the cost of education. If you truly want to be a doctor, by all means begin the educational process to fulfill that ambition. But if you’re not sure what you want to do, I beg you not to waste your money (or your parents’ money) on overpriced educational institutions that will shackle you in debt and provide you with a useless degree … especially when your friends who went to vocational school are earning over $70,000 a year.
As a side note, my friend’s son Tim has returned to school. Machinist’s school. With his knowledge of civil engineering, being a machinist is a natural fit; and he believes it will provide better job opportunities. You see, he met a young lady, and they’d like to get married and start a family. Tim knew he couldn’t support a family while working at the gardening department of Home Depot.
It’s a smart young man who learns from his mistakes. I urge other young people (and their parents) to learn from Tim’s. College is not a requirement for a fulfilled life.

[MaSonZ]

18 years old, I have my EMT license, an extremily strong base in carpentry and wood working, hoping to take the fire academy when it comes around next (hopefully this fall/winter) and a strong base in computer repairs. Have yet to take a trade class on any of these except my EMT class. I knew nothing fo the soaring price of college, and I hjadnt planned on attending one except for fire scienes at my local comunity college, but I'm glad I didnt want to pursue something that would cost an arm and a leg to pay for one year, let alone all 4 at the minimum, possibly 8-12 if I went for my doctorate in a field... Thanks for posting, very interesting. 

[guncrasher]

seen that chain letter before.

where I work the beginning salary is about 45k a year and you are only required to have a driver's license and highschool diploma.  I work at a steel mill.  we have kids 19 or 20 making 50 to 60k a year.  however the list to get in is about 1 1/2 years long and you are required to show up when called.  they normally give you about 1 to 2 hours to show up for an interview.

finding good paying skilled jobs are not that easy.  some pay pretty good but good luck trying to get in.  getting a degree in nursing will almost guarantee you a job somewhere at a pretty good pay, trying to find a job as an accredited nanny is pretty much like wining the lottery where I live.

while the cost of college has increased the cost of community college is still pretty much affordable.  take most of your classes at your local community college then transfer to a 4 year college, the cost will be a lot less.

best advise you can get is dont go to college to get a bs degree, go to college to get a degree that will earn you a living.


sem

[MaSonZ]

seen that chain letter before.

where I work the beginning salary is about 45k a year and you are only required to have a driver's license and highschool diploma.  I work at a steel mill.  we have kids 19 or 20 making 50 to 60k a year.  however the list to get in is about 1 1/2 years long and you are required to show up when called.  they normally give you about 1 to 2 hours to show up for an interview.

finding good paying skilled jobs are not that easy.  some pay pretty good but good luck trying to get in.  getting a degree in nursing will almost guarantee you a job somewhere at a pretty good pay, trying to find a job as an accredited nanny is pretty much like wining the lottery where I live.

while the cost of college has increased the cost of community college is still pretty much affordable.  take most of your classes at your local community college then transfer to a 4 year college, the cost will be a lot less.

best advise you can get is dont go to college to get a bs degree, go to college to get a degree that will earn you a living.


sem

im looking about 12,000 or so for a year at my local community college if I should go that route.

[icepac]

Both.

One year of trade school will help you make up your mind.

[shdo]

The issue with not getting a 4 year degree.

I've been working in my field almost 20 years.  When I started all you needed was desire and the ability to learn and you could get in the door and prove yourself.  Now as I continue to work in my field it has gotten to the point that 20 years of OJT won't get you past the HR flacks into a job interview anymore.  The problem is that even if the people doing the job want you you still must get through HR.  You can have a manager walk you into HR and HR can and will tell the manager that (s)he is not "qualified" as they don't have  4 year degree.

In some cases it is only a piece of paper.  It is still a needed piece of paper in many areas just to get in the door.

shdo

[guncrasher]

im looking about 12,000 or so for a year at my local community college if I should go that route.

you re kidding right?  it costs 46 dollars per unit at mine most classes are about 5 units, plus the costs of books which is about another 100 to 150 bucks.  the limit you to 5 or 6 classes per semester I believe.  I only take 1 or 2 classes per semester.


look at this http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2012/02/07/10-least-expensive-public-schools-for-out-of-state-students

semp

[zack1234]

With recession on it way (and it is) there will be a shift in the employment market.

The need for repair and make do trades will come in to its own.

Cheap credit is gone and people will not be able to move house and will have extra cash to make do with what they have.

People who are handy and cheap will come into their own and the service sector jobs that have been prevelant over the past 30 years ie insurance and finacial sectors will be a thing of the past.

A good tradesman is worth his wieght in gold.

Its suprising how many "Educated" people are not really educted and have the sense of a 9 year old and cannot use a screwdriver.

[ACE]

I start trade school for HVAC in two weeks.  I think i get in for free with scholarships and grants.  Thats a two year program, as soon as thats done i go back for two more years to also be an electrician.

[zack1234]

Everyone needs a electrician

Join the Army they will pay for it

[Maverick]

The sad reality of it is that college is not the best route for everyone. While our society is geared to push the kids to college it may not be the best track for them. If the student is challenged by academics, why saddle them with an impending failure? Should that student have a gift for working with their hands, be mechanically inclined why push them to a lib arts degree, a business degree or something else where they have no interest?

Work is not the end and for some it may not even be the means to an end. For some working at what they love is not work. Others are hating what they do and dread going to work every day, looking only toward the time that they can retire. Which is the happier life?

Parents always want their kids to be better than they were. Have more, be happier and have to struggle less. Sometimes you just have to let the kid(s) decide what they want to do with their own life and support them. If they make less than you did, but are happy, then they ARE successful.

[shermanjr]

well this may be off topic but i went to a trade high school bit like a college cept for the fact that its state owned and run and doesnt cost anything ( ur taxes go to it) and went thro 4 years of hvac/r training just got out this june and still have found a job yet.

[Rash]

I have an ex girlfriend that went to a 2 year/trade school in Waco TX.  She was making big bucks in just a couple years in Aircraft design for the military.  She wouldn't talk much about it, but it was fitting equipment into existing a/c and writing manuals.  10 years ago, she was making $48 an hour plus per diem as a contractor for a private company.  Now, she works as a contractor for the US navel research lab.  She spends several months a year on an air craft carriers or in cool locations.  

[BoilerDown]

The biggest mistake you can make is to go to one of the "for profit" "universities".  You're completely throwing your money away by doing that.  You're not going to be qualified to do anything when you "graduate", and the "credits" you earn won't transfer to a real school.

The second biggest mistake you can make is to go to an expensive school on student loans to qualify you to get a job that pays complete crap.  This is why at an engineering college, all other students make fun of the liberal arts students.  If you want to be a social worker or teacher, don't go to a private school, go to your in-state public university that will only put you in debt for the next 10 years, not the rest of your life.

Someone mentioned HR.  Graduates of Purdue's undergraduate business school who concentrate in and get a job in HR make more than any of their peers.  Its a very fast track to management and a six-figure salary, and the reason it is that way is that its hard to find good people who want to do it.  And I think that's the lesson.  Find something that you're good at, that you like to do, that not a lot of other people like to do.  Not a lot of people like HR, that's why they make money.  Not a lot of people can do calculus, that's why engineers and scientists make money.  Tons of people like to work with kids or fly airplanes, that's why teachers and pilots are paid like crap.  Choose wisely.

[VonMessa]

With recession on it way (and it is) there will be a shift in the employment market.

The need for repair and make do trades will come in to its own.

Cheap credit is gone and people will not be able to move house and will have extra cash to make do with what they have.

People who are handy and cheap will come into their own and the service sector jobs that have been prevelant over the past 30 years ie insurance and finacial sectors will be a thing of the past.

A good tradesman is worth his wieght in gold.

Its suprising how many "Educated" people are not really educted and have the sense of a 9 year old and cannot use a screwdriver.

This statement cannot be overestimated or ring truer.  College grads are a dime/dozen and most, in my experience, expect the "big bucks" as soon as they graduate, simply because they have a degree.

You just cannot beat someone who is good at their trade and, in most cases, are worth every penny paid to make sure the job is done correctly.