Author Topic: College or Trade school  (Read 673 times)

Offline ToeTag

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2012, 10:56:34 AM »
I figured things out while I was in college and quit.  Just do a search for "Why college is a scam" on you tube.  In my opinion it's spot on.   I am a trades man and have done exceptionally well.  While most of my friends from college are not even working in the field of study that they received a degree in.  Another is so far in debt that he has given up and resorted to bar tending / waiting tables because a masters in English just will simply never pay off. 
They call it "common sense", then why is it so uncommon?

Offline VonMessa

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 11:01:49 AM »
Interwebz fart

Double Post
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:03:27 AM by VonMessa »
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2012, 11:02:32 AM »
I figured things out while I was in college and quit.  Just do a search for "Why college is a scam" on you tube.  In my opinion it's spot on.   I am a trades man and have done exceptionally well.  While most of my friends from college are not even working in the field of study that they received a degree in.  Another is so far in debt that he has given up and resorted to bar tending / waiting tables because a masters in English just will simply never pay off. 


^^^ THIS
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Offline Spikes

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »
I am going to a 4 year school for a degree in Cybersecurity and Cyber Forensics...many of my classes have to do with Criminal Justice, so I figured my career field is pretty wide open once I am finished. Was this a bad choice?
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Offline ACE

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2012, 12:05:05 PM »
I am going to a 4 year school for a degree in Cybersecurity and Cyber Forensics...many of my classes have to do with Criminal Justice, so I figured my career field is pretty wide open once I am finished. Was this a bad choice?
That sounds like you will make quite a bit of money.  I do not think it's a bad choice.
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2012, 12:43:07 PM »
I am going to a 4 year school for a degree in Cybersecurity and Cyber Forensics...many of my classes have to do with Criminal Justice, so I figured my career field is pretty wide open once I am finished. Was this a bad choice?

My personal opinion is that investigating/solving/preventing crime will never be out of fashion.

Question is...

How many others will flood your field when you graduate?  Will what you learned be current (as compared with what those in the field are doing when you graduate)?  Will you be willing to "start at the bottom" in your field?

Having a degree means that you may have more knowledge than most lay-people would.  It does not relate to experience or getting a big paycheck.  My father works in the rubber molding industry (took over all the mold contracts from NASA after the Challenger disaster).  When the "high-speed", "educated" engineering types at the plant are stumped, they ask my father, a 30+ year employee without any college education who has been working there since he was 20, how to fix it.

There is no substitute for experience.  Acknowledging that, and truly understanding it, will go a long, long way when looking for a job and learning your trade.

This is why folks used to serve apprenticeships for many years before they were even given the respect to be called an Electrician, Plumber, Machinist, Toolmaker, Cobbler, Cooper, Mason, etc.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2012, 01:25:27 PM »
My personal opinion is that investigating/solving/preventing crime will never be out of fashion.

Question is...

How many others will flood your field when you graduate?  Will what you learned be current (as compared with what those in the field are doing when you graduate)?  Will you be willing to "start at the bottom" in your field?

Having a degree means that you may have more knowledge than most lay-people would.  It does not relate to experience or getting a big paycheck.  My father works in the rubber molding industry (took over all the mold contracts from NASA after the Challenger disaster).  When the "high-speed", "educated" engineering types at the plant are stumped, they ask my father, a 30+ year employee without any college education who has been working there since he was 20, how to fix it.

There is no substitute for experience.  Acknowledging that, and truly understanding it, will go a long, long way when looking for a job and learning your trade.

This is why folks used to serve apprenticeships for many years before they were even given the respect to be called an Electrician, Plumber, Machinist, Toolmaker, Cobbler, Cooper, Mason, etc.

Four years college = 1 year in the field. That is what I have always heard and experienced.
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 01:36:17 PM »
Four years college = 1 year in the field. That is what I have always heard and experienced.

It truly depends. I have hired many people and what a college degree from an accredited university tells me is that they can stick to something and finish it, even when the going gets rough, think work ethic. That being said, depending on the field, college education is required as it is almost 'job' training, ie many engineering positions require lots of math knowledge, something that only the most diligent and driven people would be able to learn outside of a school.
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Offline Hajo

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2012, 01:39:37 PM »
Dad very very good post!  A skilled trade will in most cases offer a more secure income.  Being Salaried for 42 years
and about to retire I've observed what your post explains.  Graduates will have a difficult time finding a decent paying job
in any field.  If it is a Salaried job you can bet there is little security.  after witnessing what I have the past 42 years it has
become apparent that landing a salaried job in business is shaky at best for the long term.  I've basically worked for the same
company for the last 37 years.  Unless you are upper management  (top 3 or 4) your long term security is a crap shoot.
I've witnessed many salaried management jobs disappear, and people who held them almost on a whim dismissed.  No rhime
or reason.

However, machinists, welders, pipefitters etc. will generally have no problem finding work.  Skilled trades Electrical trades
and Ironworkers do well also.  Being in Management for the last 42 years I have one observation.  College helped some,
but the insecurity of long term employment is dubious at best in Management.  Luckily I survived by working my arse off
and being the best at what I do.  And still there was no guarantee that I would be back tomorrow.


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« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 02:06:55 PM by Hajo »
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Offline Pand

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2012, 02:00:14 PM »
This statement cannot be overestimated or ring truer.  College grads are a dime/dozen and most, in my experience, expect the "big bucks" as soon as they graduate, simply because they have a degree.

You just cannot beat someone who is good at their trade and, in most cases, are worth every penny paid to make sure the job is done correctly.
College or Tradesman, just make sure you're awesome at whatever you choose to do.  If you're not, you're just part of the other 95% of people we all deal with on a daily basis that have no idea what they're doing.

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Offline zack1234

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2012, 02:07:36 PM »
crime jobs are the craze at present due to tv crime prograns etc
In the 80's it was IT you can get a Indian in Mumbae to do the work for pennies.
It was also media studies but that was nonsense, only people with money usually work in the media.

Tradesman have always been seen as a non exciting job, all that coin you dont have to declare to the tax man :)

Workingclass people who reach for the stars are embarrassing, nothing like having a trade.

Imagine all the chicks you will meet who need odd jobs doing :rofl
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Offline Spikes

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2012, 02:23:24 PM »
My personal opinion is that investigating/solving/preventing crime will never be out of fashion.

Question is...

How many others will flood your field when you graduate?  Will what you learned be current (as compared with what those in the field are doing when you graduate)?  Will you be willing to "start at the bottom" in your field?

Having a degree means that you may have more knowledge than most lay-people would.  It does not relate to experience or getting a big paycheck.  My father works in the rubber molding industry (took over all the mold contracts from NASA after the Challenger disaster).  When the "high-speed", "educated" engineering types at the plant are stumped, they ask my father, a 30+ year employee without any college education who has been working there since he was 20, how to fix it.

There is no substitute for experience.  Acknowledging that, and truly understanding it, will go a long, long way when looking for a job and learning your trade.

This is why folks used to serve apprenticeships for many years before they were even given the respect to be called an Electrician, Plumber, Machinist, Toolmaker, Cobbler, Cooper, Mason, etc.
Fair enough. College is overly expensive, I know. I think that having the degree will help get a job...vs having nothing. Also, the college that I'm going to is very involved with the Law Enforcement and military stuff as well. Our crime lab is the second biggest in NYS and state police use it all the time, there are lots of internships though it. The head of the CJ program is ex AF with top secret clearance yadda yadda...just a lot of connections.
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2012, 02:40:55 PM »
It truly depends. I have hired many people and what a college degree from an accredited university tells me is that they can stick to something and finish it, even when the going gets rough, think work ethic. That being said, depending on the field, college education is required as it is almost 'job' training, ie many engineering positions require lots of math knowledge, something that only the most diligent and driven people would be able to learn outside of a school.

A college degree is usually indicative of an ability to "stick with it" and will usually help someone land a job when the alternative is someone without one unless the market is flooded.

Sometimes, though, it is not the best choice.

I worked at a production plant that had an in-house tool room with a handful of toolmakers (of which I was one) to repair/polish/sharpen stamping and forming dies in the presses.  Some were single operation, but most were progressive dies.  We scratch-built the occasional die on a whim from our engineers to try something to see if it would work, but the majority of new dies were farmed out as most of our guys had their hands full maintaining the ones out on the shop floor.  Someone (above the level of the toolroom foreman) had the bright idea of hiring a "green" (fresh out of apprenticeship) Journeyman Toolmaker because he would be "current on the latest trends" in toolmaking.  Conversely, most of the guys already in the toolroom had at least 10+ years of hand-on experience.  To be short, this new guy could make a very pretty looking die from a blueprint and, to his credit, he was fairly quick at it.  When it came to the meatball surgery of pulling a broken die from a press, diagnosing it and getting it back in the press making parts, he was utterly useless.  Because of his "credentials", he got paid more than most in the toolroom and when the guys found out, they had a fit.  This new guy, however, felt entitled to his wages based on the fact that he served a 4-year "apprenticeship"  but the fact was, his experience during the apprenticeship was based upon working in a shop whose product was new dies, not in a shop where they repaired broken dies as quickly as possible. He had the book knowledge, but lacked the experience commensurate with the pay he expected.  We all eventually got raises to reflect our experience as compared with his...

Have a degree does not automatically entitle these college grads to an instant, massive paycheck.  I don't know where they get this notion, but it is entirely wrong and ludicrous.  What it does entitle them to, if anything at all, is a foot in the door to a business where they can start doing the job that they were educated for.  That is all.  From that point on it is up to them to prove their worth and adeptness at their profession.

It is called paying your dues.  Going to college and getting a Bachelor's degree is not "paying your dues".  It is only just the groundwork needed in some fields to be able to start a career.
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2012, 02:47:48 PM »
Have a degree does not automatically entitle these college grads to an instant, massive paycheck.  I don't know where they get this notion, but it is entirely wrong and ludicrous.  What it does entitle them to, if anything at all, is a foot in the door to a business where they can start doing the job that they were educated for.  That is all.  From that point on it is up to them to prove their worth and adeptness at their profession.

It is called paying your dues.  Going to college and getting a Bachelor's degree is not "paying your dues".  It is only just the groundwork needed in some fields to be able to start a career.

 :aok Agree completely, and there is nothing more obnoxious than a greenhorn who things they are entitled. Experience is always #1. That said, my point was that depending on the line of work, college may be a necessity for having the ground work and to have the opportunity to get the experience.

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Offline bmwgs

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Re: College or Trade school
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2012, 03:05:00 PM »
A college degree is usually indicative of an ability to "stick with it" and will usually help someone land a job when the alternative is someone without one unless the market is flooded.

Sometimes, though, it is not the best choice.

I worked at a production plant that had an in-house tool room with a handful of toolmakers (of which I was one) to repair/polish/sharpen stamping and forming dies in the presses.  Some were single operation, but most were progressive dies.  We scratch-built the occasional die on a whim from our engineers to try something to see if it would work, but the majority of new dies were farmed out as most of our guys had their hands full maintaining the ones out on the shop floor.  Someone (above the level of the toolroom foreman) had the bright idea of hiring a "green" (fresh out of apprenticeship) Journeyman Toolmaker because he would be "current on the latest trends" in toolmaking.  Conversely, most of the guys already in the toolroom had at least 10+ years of hand-on experience.  To be short, this new guy could make a very pretty looking die from a blueprint and, to his credit, he was fairly quick at it.  When it came to the meatball surgery of pulling a broken die from a press, diagnosing it and getting it back in the press making parts, he was utterly useless.  Because of his "credentials", he got paid more than most in the toolroom and when the guys found out, they had a fit.  This new guy, however, felt entitled to his wages based on the fact that he served a 4-year "apprenticeship"  but the fact was, his experience during the apprenticeship was based upon working in a shop whose product was new dies, not in a shop where they repaired broken dies as quickly as possible. He had the book knowledge, but lacked the experience commensurate with the pay he expected.  We all eventually got raises to reflect our experience as compared with his...

Have a degree does not automatically entitle these college grads to an instant, massive paycheck.  I don't know where they get this notion, but it is entirely wrong and ludicrous.  What it does entitle them to, if anything at all, is a foot in the door to a business where they can start doing the job that they were educated for.  That is all.  From that point on it is up to them to prove their worth and adeptness at their profession.

It is called paying your dues.  Going to college and getting a Bachelor's degree is not "paying your dues".  It is only just the groundwork needed in some fields to be able to start a career.


Obviously you do not have a college degree.  I spent four years working three jobs to pay for my degree.  I graduated poor, but I did not have one outstanding debt or loan, yet you make such a broad statement that I did not pay my dues!!!! 

Do the deed and then tell us how easy it is.

Fred
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