Stick stirring

[Karnak]

I disagree completely, its like guys who HO the minute they see you start to HO them back they start ducking, people will go extreme lengths in this game to avoid any danger to themselves or even combat.

The collisions I experience are not on the first merge, the situation would be lets say a brewster and me diving on him, he turns into the attack every time, every time I try and pull up and away and we collide he flys off with a lollypop and I lose a wing. Perhaps its because I am going faster? I certainly cannot turn nose to nose with a brewster in a d9. So basically I have gun solution and the slower better turning plane turns nose to nose for a HO every time I go down.

Why would he need to dodge something that isn't going to happen?  That is what you don't seem to get.

Yes, he didn't dodge the collision.  He didn't have to as there was never an imminent collision on his computer.  He didn't collide and thus took no damage.  He is in no way responsible for your poor collision avoidance.

[ink]

the only "stick stirring" I have seen were 190's flip flopping around......but what perv describes...the spit going nose up then nose down with no movements in between.....never seen anything like that.....


 

[kvuo75]

The collisions I experience are not on the first merge, the situation would be lets say a brewster and me diving on him, he turns into the attack every time, every time I try and pull up and away and we collide he flys off with a lollypop and I lose a wing.

no, YOU collided. he did not. otherwise he would take damage as well.

[Nathan60]

Every time I stick stir I feel ashamed and guilty then I take a nap and wash the sock.

[LilMak]

Then you do not have a reasonable understanding of lag and collisions. What you really are asking for (And I am not overstating this) is that any time you are approaching a plane from the rear or top you can keep guns firing as you fly right threw the center of your target airplane, with no need to worry about a collision.

Because it is impossible for 2 planes to see a collision when the are on a parallel course. As example if you have 2 computers side by side, and both see themselves pass a tree at the same time. Both will see the other plane on their computer pass that tree at a later time.  I.E. both planes will see the other plane behind them. So when ever you hit a plane when making a pass from the rear, the other player is seeing you pass well behind him.

HiTech

What I'm talking about may not be lag then. A perfect example is a fight I had with Jetsom in AvA not too long ago. It started high with both of us trying hard to gain the advantage. It degraded to a low scum near the deck. When I went down, it was from a collision that occurred when my plane was in a nose up stall (immobile). Jet came around and didn't get a gun solution on his screen and flew right by with no need to maneuver to avoid a collision on his part. On my screen his 109 flew right through the center of my jug while I was absolutely helpless to maneuver. I lose a wing and Jet flies along happily (and rightfully so) thinking he avoided any collision. I get the dreaded "You collided with Jetsom" even though I was helpless to avoid it and Jet had no need to avoid anything. Had Jetsom seen that he was going to ram me on his screen, he surely would've tried to avoid it or at least fired his guns. I'd say 80%+ of the collisions I get into are this type where I'm helpless to avoid it and the other guy plows right through completely oblivious he's actually ramming me.

In no way am I asking for collisions to be turned off or adjusted in game at all. What I am asking for is, when they do occur, that both sides see "You have collided with XYZ" in order for damage to be assigned to either aircraft. I don't see how that would make anyone fear collisions less.

[Zoney]

Perv, if I am fighting a stick stirrer, I just fly away and find a better fight, if I am fighting a guy who wants to HO, I just fly away and find a different fight.  Not most of the time, every time.  Why do you care about getting a kill on someone that plays that way, you only feed them then.  Seriously, I do not see alot of guys that stick stir, but the HO we all see from time to time, the first time they try it, the fights over and I'm off.

[hitech]

The collisions I experience are not on the first merge, the situation would be lets say a brewster and me diving on him, he turns into the attack every time, every time I try and pull up and away and we collide he flys off with a lollypop and I lose a wing.

There is no WE collided, you seem to not understand that he did not ever touch your airplane,he did not collide, he was rewarded for avoiding the collision. YOU ARE THE ONE who screwed up and ran into his airplane. Hence YOU are the one who suffered damage. So again you are now asking for some one to take damage, flying precisely the way you want them to fly, I.E. he flew to avoid the collision just as you wished he would, but already did.

HiTech

[LilMak]

Let me just drop a quick  to HiTech. I LOVE your company and think it's a model of friggin awesomeness. Who the hell else would be on a message board on a Saturday schooling us neanderthals on stick stirring and lag on  his (presumably) day off?

[caldera]

He's only here because he's sleeping in the doghouse for a few days. 

[hitech]

Let me just drop a quick  to HiTech. I LOVE your company and think it's a model of friggin awesomeness. Who the hell else would be on a message board on a Saturday schooling us neanderthals on stick stirring and lag on  his (presumably) day off?

Been building custom shelving in the closet today, the forum was a break from work

[LilMak]

Been building custom shelving in the closet today, the forum was a break from work

Ahhh...procrastination. I know it well. 

[Zodiac]

What I'm talking about may not be lag then. A perfect example is a fight I had with Jetsom in AvA not too long ago. It started high with both of us trying hard to gain the advantage. It degraded to a low scum near the deck. When I went down, it was from a collision that occurred when my plane was in a nose up stall (immobile). Jet came around and didn't get a gun solution on his screen and flew right by with no need to maneuver to avoid a collision on his part. On my screen his 109 flew right through the center of my jug while I was absolutely helpless to maneuver. I lose a wing and Jet flies along happily (and rightfully so) thinking he avoided any collision. I get the dreaded "You collided with Jetsom" even though I was helpless to avoid it and Jet had no need to avoid anything. Had Jetsom seen that he was going to ram me on his screen, he surely would've tried to avoid it or at least fired his guns. I'd say 80%+ of the collisions I get into are this type where I'm helpless to avoid it and the other guy plows right through completely oblivious he's actually ramming me.

In no way am I asking for collisions to be turned off or adjusted in game at all. What I am asking for is, when they do occur, that both sides see "You have collided with XYZ" in order for damage to be assigned to either aircraft. I don't see how that would make anyone fear collisions less.

This is exactly what we have....You saw the message "You have collided with Jetsom" and you took the damage, you will also notice that you didn't see the message "Jetsom has collided with you" so on his screen your planes never collided. If you only see the "You have collided" message you are going to be the only one who receives damage, however if you see both the "You have collided" message and the "Jetsom has collided with you" then you will both take damage. In other words if you only get the "You have collided" message, you know the other guy is going to fly away with no damage because on your screen your planes collided and on his screen there was no collision. It can seem complicated but to put it in the simplest terms, if your planes do not collide on your screen then you are not going to take damage regardless of what the other guy's screen shows and if your planes do collide on your screen then you are going to take damage regardless of what his screen shows.

[LilMak]

This is exactly what we have....You saw the message "You have collided with Jetsom" and you took the damage, you will also notice that you didn't see the message "Jetsom has collided with you" so on his screen your planes never collided. If you only see the "You have collided" message you are going to be the only one who receives damage, however if you see both the "You have collided" message and the "Jetsom has collided with you" then you will both take damage. In other words if you only get the "You have collided" message, you know the other guy is going to fly away with no damage because on your screen your planes collided and on his screen there was no collision. It can seem complicated but to put it in the simplest terms, if your planes do not collide on your screen then you are not going to take damage regardless of what the other guy's screen shows and if your planes do collide on your screen then you are going to take damage regardless of what his screen shows.

*Sigh*
I know why he didn't take damage. It wouldn't be fair for him to receive damage. I ALSO feel that he was the only one of the two of us who could've avoided that collision and since he had no reason to avoid it he came screaming though my plane on my screen. I sincerely believe, had he seen it, he would've tried to avoid it. This, IMO, punishes one player but not the other and ruined an epic fight. This has happened to me on the runway before. I spawned in and my prop was spooling up to have a vulcher collide with me on the runway. I wasn't even moving and got a collision message. Then I watched him fly away unscathed.

The collision model feels, to me, like getting a ticket for being rear ended at a stop light. All I'm saying is that both screens should say "You collided with XYZ" before any plane receives damage. I'm not saying the other guy should get injured or go spiraling down if he had no reason to avoid anything, but I shouldn't either.

In simple terms, either two pilots are equally responsible for the collision or there was no collision.

[Karnak]

Sometimes it happens, you pick yourself up, grab another airplane from the hangar and try again.

Removing collisions as you suggest, LilKak, would cause a gross distortion in air combat tactics, particularly with .50 and .303 armed aircraft as it would be a good thing to fly through your opponent if both FEs had to see the collision for there to be a collision.  Fly through the target, guns blazing.  It is very hard to miss from 0 yards.  Cannon armed aircraft would have to cease firing shortly before flying through their target otherwise they'd get themselves with the blasts from their own shells.

[LilMak]

Sometimes it happens, you pick yourself up, grab another airplane from the hangar and try again.

Removing collisions as you suggest, LilKak, would cause a gross distortion in air combat tactics, particularly with .50 and .303 armed aircraft as it would be a good thing to fly through your opponent if both FEs had to see the collision for there to be a collision.  Fly through the target, guns blazing.  It is very hard to miss from 0 yards.  Cannon armed aircraft would have to cease firing shortly before flying through their target otherwise they'd get themselves with the blasts from their own shells.

So what you're saying is that true collisions (both pilots see it) are so rare that no one would bother to try to avoid collisions at all? I guess, if that's the case, I'd rather continue to be punished for collisions that I can't avoid.

I do agree that "crap happens" and normally I just curse at my bad luck and grab another plane. It just makes me furious when I was in the middle of a great fight which is what I relish when I play. I don't like it when the other guys takes the collision and I fly away either. Especially since good fights seem to be more and more rare these days.