Increase the perk cost for the Me163

[SmokinLoon]

Not to mention the real b17,b24 raids didnt NOT fly @ 95% throttle all the way to target, like they do in AH.

ding ding

Indeed.  Their speeds were closer to 220 TAS and alts were closer 20k than then full throttle/28k+ we see far too often. 

[Chalenge]

B-29 Superfortress Detail & Scale Part 1 for example clearly states how the cabin was depressurized 30 minutes prior to entering combat zone. Not all B-29 raids were conducted at lower altitudes.

People don't just magically drop dead even at extreme altitudes as long as they have an appropriate supply of oxygen. There are previous glider altitude records that are as high as ~46000ft without pressure suits.

Detail and Scale is wrong. Read LeMays book on the subject. The early sorties that flew that high did not depressurize. Later sorties did not fly high enough to need to do so.

There are plenty of accounts of pilots "dropping dead" during orientation flights at high altitude. Many P-47 pilots that flew to high altitude never returned. The same is probably true for a lot of pilots that '"disappeared from formation" or "dropped out of formation and was never seen again." You should educate yourself on the problems of high altitude flight.

[Chalenge]

Damn this weak brain, I have a distinct memory of a first person account of flying in b-29s over Japan before they started flying lower.  One of the things the veteran said was that they were supposed to depressurize before entering the combat zone but they didn't because they liked flying in short sleeves and comfort.  Wish I could remember the source, if it comes to me I'll post it.

In fact the accounts also mention having to plug the holes from cannon fire in order to maintain internal pressure.

[ink]

WTF!?!?

How dare you suggest combat...

 

[Wmaker]

Detail and Scale is wrong. Read LeMays book on the subject. The early sorties that flew that high did not depressurize. Later sorties did not fly high enough to need to do so.

Well I'm sure you can quote the book for me then.

From the B-29's Commander Manual:


From Detail & Scale:

There are plenty of accounts of pilots "dropping dead" during orientation flights at high altitude. Many P-47 pilots that flew to high altitude never returned. The same is probably true for a lot of pilots that '"disappeared from formation" or "dropped out of formation and was never seen again." You should educate yourself on the problems of high altitude flight.

I'm aware about the difficulties of high altitude flight, like oxygen systems failing and people dying due to that. Something that most probably happened in the incidents you mentioned.


----------------------
A good read for those who are actually interested:

"Paul later explained in a letter some particulars of his preparation and equipment:
My oxygen equipment was quite similar to that used by most of those who have set altitude records in the wave at Bishop. It was a low pressure system using a pressure demand mask and a regulator such as those used by fighter pilots at the end of World War II. I had no pressure suit; however, I have had considerable altitude experience while flying in service aircraft and have had ample opportunity to test myself in altitude chambers. Although it is not desirable to try to fly at these heights without pressure suits or cabin, I did not detect any particular difficulty from this source. Actually, I was so cold (-65° C outside air temperature) that I could not pay attention to anything else. Maximum rate of climb was about 2,000 feet per minute.
.....
February 25, 1961 - 46, 267ft - Paul Bickle - Mohave, CA SGS 1-23E."

http://www.aerosente.com/2009/09/the-world-altitude-record-of-paul-bickle.html

[danny76]

Damn this weak brain, I have a distinct memory of a first person account of flying in b-29s over Japan before they started flying lower.  One of the things the veteran said was that they were supposed to depressurize before entering the combat zone but they didn't because they liked flying in short sleeves and comfort.  Wish I could remember the source, if it comes to me I'll post it.

I heard Lt Theodore Van Kirk on BBC radio saying pretty much just that. Amazingly switched on and proud man, who is last Enola Gay survivor

[Chalenge]

Search this page for "cabin pressure" and you will find a very near exact quote about a B-29 mission from LeMay's book.

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-40th-bomb-group.htm

[Wmaker]

Search this page for "cabin pressure" and you will find a very near exact quote about a B-29 mission from LeMay's book.

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-40th-bomb-group.htm

"One of the missions from China made a special mark in the news media. On December 7, 1944, O'Keefe's crew was in a formation heading to bomb Japanese-occupied Mukden (now Shenyang), China, when it encountered heavy fighter opposition. Enemy shells punctured the plane's nose, destroying O'Keefe's gun sight and causing the cabin to lose pressure. O'Keefe and the others plugged every hole they could find with rags, but they were still losing pressure. After a thorough search, they finally found more holes on the deck but, alas, were out of rags. Crewman Edwin Mann then eyed his in-fiight meal, which contained a small package of K-ration cheese. 'Whatever they used to preserve the cheese gave it properties of remarkable toughness and rubbery resilience,' O'Keefe says jokingly. Mann opened two of the packs and pushed the bits of cheese into the holes. The cabin pressure returned to normal levels and held until they returned safely to base."

So based on this quote you made the conclusion that they never depressurized for combat??

Right.

[MK-84]

I would also like to see the 163 perk costs increased.

Reasons:

1.) Buffs have spent alot of time to get to an alt where they have a chance of making the drop.

2.) The aircraft was very rare in real life and prone to malfunctions

3.) Regular defenders in P47's, C-Hogs, 152's, Tempests, 262's and the like, have also spent a good deal of time getting in position for an intercept and it is a bit frustrating to have a few 163's come straight up and harvest the kills before the P47's, C-Hogs, 152's, Tempests, 262's can merge.

^This  just much more eloquently put than I managed

[MK-84]

I was thinking of what luche said, and I still believe the perk price should increase.

     The K/D he posted may possibly not lead to actual results in terms of my wish.  I do not have the ability to dissect numbers like he does, but I feel K/D importance of this plane may not accurately show its true impact vs a large HQ raid.  Other things to consider as he stated is the huge difference in player skill.
     The 163's effectiveness I believe is very much understated in K/D Vs A large HQ raid.  I guess that the "experts" in the 163 disrupt the average, and the actual K/D would be lower if you toss out the highs and the lows.  That would seem contradictory, except for the role it is being used in.  Even a subpar pilot making a dead 6 attack against a bomber stream likely has a chance of getting a kill before getting shot down in return. In this type of scenario you can "throw" yourself at the enemy, and with a 163, it takes just a few minutes to get there.
     Luche pointed out that for some reason a large HQ or strat raid is largely ignored until the last moment.  I agree, but a quick up of a 163 at the last moment, although effective, is still not good for gameplay.  Effectively hitting an enemy's strats hugely affects the game now. So let it.  The larger maps often remain fairly stagnant anyways, and the small maps are much harder to create this scenario.
     I doubt it will lead to more players actually looking at their map to recognize an inbound raid, but they may pay attention to those that do knowing now it is much harder to up a last minute defense.

[Lusche]

I might throw in that not only the strats are only protected by 163s on the small maps most of the time, but the strat redesign process is not finished yet. HT gave some hints on more targets which would be spread over the map much more, which could change things a lot in this context.

As far as the current  HQ goes, it's my personal opinion that we could simply get rid of it. The immediate effect is too big and simplistic (all dar on/off) and to counter that it's very easy to resupply. It's not particularly balanced.

[W7LPNRICK]

Given the range, limited guns of the 163 - 50 perks is enough... idea is to deter people from raiding HQ every hour for giggles of knocking out someones radar.

You want the HQ, you face 163s.

Agreed 100% 

[Krusty]

ding ding

Indeed.  Their speeds were closer to 220 TAS and alts were closer 20k than then full throttle/28k+ we see far too often. 

Speeds were closer to 180 in many cases. Let's just say that even early fighters without the massive speeds of 1945-era were able to overtake, HO, turn around, overtake, HO, a formation dozens of times in relatively short encounter. Even fighters with short fuel tanks (meaning short combat times).

[kvuo75]

schweet,  at FL280, 180 mph tas is 115 mph cas

[Krusty]

point of order: Most weren't flying at 28k, either. A small minority flew that high. Relatively speaking. Small compared to the entire force of bombers. When you have 1000 bombers in the air, only the top of the top will be that high. Many B17s and B24s flew around 20k alts. Many at 25k-ish, but some even lower in the 18k-ish range.