Innovation - not jobs??

[Copprhed]

The TED video was very interesting.

I was an employee before I became a business owner, and there is one question nobody seems able to answer: Why do people think their work is more valuable this year than the last? If you produce more value for your employer you deserve more pay, but there seems to be a general idea that every year every worker should get a raise regardless of performance. The wage push is the driving force behind inflation as higher labor costs passed on to the consumers by the producers.

I did finally watch it, apologies  to the OP for being part of hijacking his thread.
Employees do more work, theoretically each year, because they gain experience. That experience leads to more production, which leads to more profit for the business owner. If the owner is making more money, why on earth should the employees expect more, themselves.
A note so that it's understood that I am NOT referring to any kind of resentment about my own wages. I do just fine. Should be gettin more, but...eh....

[Shuffler]

This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....

You are the one mistaken... I asked.... not stated. It is "your" choice to accept what you do for compensation. You seem to expect others to do something for you. If your waiting for that... you have a long wait in store.

Try taking action instead of complaining on a game board. Find someone who will pay you what you think you are worth. You seem to have a lot of experience in several areas. You should be able to sell yourself fairly easily.

[Copprhed]

Hey Shuffer! If EVERYBODY started their own business...who the would work for you? Somewhere down the road, someone has to be an employee. Fact of life, and  yes,many, MANY out there deserve a lot more than they're being paid.

[Shuffler]

Hey Shuffer! If EVERYBODY started their own business...who the would work for you? Somewhere down the road, someone has to be an employee. Fact of life, and  yes,many, MANY out there deserve a lot more than they're being paid.

I agree some out there deserve more and some deserve less.

[gpwurzel]

For what its worth - I started a business here in the vast metropolis of 29 Palms - mobile computer repair, website design and creation, uploading and all that good stuff. Steady stream of customers, but not enough to pay the bills. Fortunately for me, I've now got a full time job - I almost got to the stage of needing to employ someone - so I put ads in all the usual places - number of takers 2, number of takers with the necessary experience - 0. Yep, even for simple jobs, not one person with computer experience.

Do I think people get paid enough - no. Do I think the big companies take too big a slice for the upper management - yep. That said, unless you are one of the big companies out there, the owner of that company is taking a bigger risk than the employee's (yes, I know, but bear with me). He/She not only has to build the company, buy the real estate for the company, pay the taxes for that company - pay the employee's of that company etc etc etc - and is using his/her own money to do so. The economy sucks - big time - to the extent I've ceased trading (didn't want to, but with a full time job, I can't commit the time to my previous clients).

Would I start my own company again if required - most definitely - would I do things different the 2nd time round - you better believe it - would I keep going were the jobs/clients not coming in - if I had no choice, yes (caveated with but I'm not prepared to run at a loss again.

Sorry, rambled a lot there.

Wurz

[GScholz]

I did finally watch it, apologies  to the OP for being part of hijacking his thread.
Employees do more work, theoretically each year, because they gain experience. That experience leads to more production, which leads to more profit for the business owner. If the owner is making more money, why on earth should the employees expect more, themselves.
A note so that it's understood that I am NOT referring to any kind of resentment about my own wages. I do just fine. Should be gettin more, but...eh....

In theory that experience leads to more production, but in reality the dude working on an assembly line is not producing more this year than he did last year because the speed at which he works is limited by the whole production line. In many jobs where you can increase production workers should get more pay for producing more, but they have to show they actually are contributing more to the company's bottom line. Many workers (over here at least) expect more pay just because they've worked for a company for some time.

[Copprhed]

So, if the value of a product goes up, the profit is totally thanks to the owner of the business? My original post was in reference to that fact that overall, in the US, worker production has increased by 80%, whereas OVERALL, worker wages have only increased by 10%. All that money is going somewhere, and it's not proportionately going to the workers. 10% is seriously wrong, and it IS showing today in our country. You say workers should work harder...WE ARE.

[GScholz]

I have no idea where you get those numbers or what they represent. If by "worker production" you mean hours worked, then I can only assume that US production has shifted to less profitable jobs that can't easily be outsourced. As I understand it now even burger-flipping is considered industrial work in the US. How much an hour of work is worth depends a great deal on what work you're doing. As I understand it US high- and middle-income jobs are being replaced by low-income jobs.

Edit: Profits are up because companies use cheap labor from the third-world to do your job, not because American workers work harder. You can't hope to compete with Chinese labor wages.

[GScholz]

Here's the problem: http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-jobs-are-being-replaced-by-lousy-low-pay-jobs-2012-9

With more and more globalization of the economy we will at some point only have one global economy, and then the question is: Why should a worker in the west get more pay than say a Chinese worker for the same work?

[leitwolf]

I think the unfairness many folks take issue with is the fact that low/middle income jobs have not seen much of an improvement (which is to be expected being competitors in a global workforce) but despite this a widening gap between CEO/regular guy's pay - for decades now.

[GScholz]

Unfairness is a strange concept when dealing with economics. The CEO's pay is a direct result of the company's economic fortunes in competition with other companies. I.e. more profit, more pay. In contrast, the employee's pay is the result of his/hers competition with other workers. Top executives are making more money because they are using cheaper overseas labor to make their products. The American worker on the other hand has to compete against the overseas workers and lose out. The overseas workers are earning a lot more that they otherwise would. I don't know where the concept of fairness comes to play in this though. I feel I need to repeat the question: Why should a worker in the west get more pay than say a Chinese worker for the same work? Isn't that unfair?

[RTHolmes]

Have some of us watched the video before commenting?

some, not most, would be my guess. which is a shame because most TEDs are worth watching all the way through, then pondering on for a while

[CAP1]

This is too funny...it's not about MY pay, it's about the FACT that WORKERS are producing more, and getting paid LESS. Make sure all you "business owners" out there make your profit. Too many clear 250,000 a year, while not paying their employees a living wage, and YOU think WE owe YOU something. As I said in my earlier post, YOU don't produce, the WORKERS produce. Without the workers, you have nothing. Shuffler, you obviously didn't read my initial post correctly ....you mistakenly, or by choice, said MY pay hadn't increased, when what I SAID was that workers have continued to produce more, while getting less money for that work, in proportion to the INCREASE in production. I will state it more plainly. We the workers are working longer, harder and doing a better job, while the employers are choosing to put that increased profit into THEIR pockets instead of giving at least some of it to the very people who do the job the employers can't. Yes, CAN'T or are too lazy to....

 i was trying to stay out of this, but i need to put this single response in here.

 i am a business owner. i own a 3 bay auto repair shop. i work 6 days a week, 10+ hours a day. i had a part time employee. i started him off at $20/hour, based on the credentials he provided to me. that is very good pay for a mechanic. most will never start a mechanic at that rate of pay, nor will most pay a mechanic that much if he is unable to diagnose(which this guy couldn't).

 i paid for his lunch every day. if he needed  a little extra money, i fronted it ot him. i took very good care of this guy. the only reason he left, was due to the fact he needed full time work, and i didn't have the work/money to pay him full time. if he was still with me, i'd probably have had him to full time by christmas.

 i make a decent profit. i pay all of my taxes on that profit.  i work my butt off. much harder than i did when i was working for someone else. sometimes i long for the days when i worked for someone else, having fixed hours. when i do, i just walk out in the parking lot, and look back at the shop with MY name over the bay doors. then i realize how worth it it is to me to work the crazy hours i do.
 those crazy hours have let me get a nice car, which i otherwise may not have afforded. they make it easier to pay my mortgage. they let me take care of mom better(although she fights me on this...she doesn't like taking help or money from me)

 what i'm getting at, is it sounds like you're assuming business owners don't care. if i'm assuming incorrectly, i apologize. i treat my employees as i have been treated at jobs i've worked at...which is very good.

 many of us are working our butts off to make something of ourselves. please don't assume we don't care.

[CAP1]

Starting a business is a big step.

to be honest.......i was absolutley terrified when i was starting my shop. i was leaving a good paying very stupidly crazy secure job that i may not have been able to get back in order to do this. i am SOOOOOOOOOO glad i pushed past that fear.

[leitwolf]

[..]I feel I need to repeat the question: Why should a worker in the west get more pay than say a Chinese worker for the same work? Isn't that unfair?

I agree with you here. I never said that was fair, but that isnt the point as this wage difference is in the process of global arbitrage and subsequently evening out. Even China now has emerging troubles with other countries undercutting their prices  (but that's a good sing because it means China's wages have gone up quite a lot)

[..]Unfairness is a strange concept when dealing with economics. The CEO's pay is a direct result of the company's economic fortunes in competition with other companies. I.e. more profit, more pay. In contrast, the employee's pay is the result of his/hers competition with other workers. Top executives are making more money because they are using cheaper overseas labor to make their products. The American worker on the other hand has to compete against the overseas workers and lose out. The overseas workers are earning a lot more that they otherwise would. I don't know where the concept of fairness comes to play in this though.[..]

Why should a larger pool of workers drive prices down like economics dictates, yet a larger pool of CEO material drive executive's prices up?
Shouldn't be stockholders (the owners of the company) cash in the alleged higher profits?
The unfairness stems from the fact that what you describe isn't what is actually happening, upper echelon compensation disconnected from both company profits and file-and-rank employees decades ago and went up disproportionally.