Innovation - not jobs??

[jimson]

No one has a right to any particular wage. Only the right to trade value for value.

[zack1234]

I very sorry to mention his name

I will repeat I am very sorry to mention his name

Again before you colonials reach for your carbines

Karl Marx 

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh

Just read his theory once, you wont get arrested or turn into a commie and you won't stop being a American

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 

Well I tried, reading a theory is not a sin

It also explains the Video.

[Rob52240]

I very sorry to mention his name

I will repeat I am very sorry to mention his name

Again before you colonials reach for your carbines

Karl Marx 

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh

Just read his theory once, you wont get arrested or turn into a commie and you won't stop being a American

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 

Well I tried, reading a theory is not a sin

It also explains the Video.

Zach should have known better than to mention that name in front of a bunch of yanks.

Get a rope.

[ink]

For what its worth - I started a business here in the vast metropolis of 29 Palms - mobile computer repair, website design and creation, uploading and all that good stuff. Steady stream of customers, but not enough to pay the bills. Fortunately for me, I've now got a full time job - I almost got to the stage of needing to employ someone - so I put ads in all the usual places - number of takers 2, number of takers with the necessary experience - 0. Yep, even for simple jobs, not one person with computer experience.

Do I think people get paid enough - no. Do I think the big companies take too big a slice for the upper management - yep. That said, unless you are one of the big companies out there, the owner of that company is taking a bigger risk than the employee's (yes, I know, but bear with me). He/She not only has to build the company, buy the real estate for the company, pay the taxes for that company - pay the employee's of that company etc etc etc - and is using his/her own money to do so. The economy sucks - big time - to the extent I've ceased trading (didn't want to, but with a full time job, I can't commit the time to my previous clients).

Would I start my own company again if required - most definitely - would I do things different the 2nd time round - you better believe it - would I keep going were the jobs/clients not coming in - if I had no choice, yes (caveated with but I'm not prepared to run at a loss again.

Sorry, rambled a lot there.

Wurz

hell I didn't know you were in 29 Palms......do you know a Mark and Pam Fields...he is a fire fighter...or was...he is my Uncle.....they have been there for many years now.


(hijack over)

[Ardy123]

The TED video was very interesting.

I was an employee before I became a business owner, and there is one question nobody seems able to answer: Why do people think their work is more valuable this year than the last? If you produce more value for your employer you deserve more pay, but there seems to be a general idea that every year every worker should get a raise regardless of performance. The wage push is the driving force behind inflation as higher labor costs passed on to the consumers by the producers.

Thats not quite how it works... supply of workers drives their pay, not their productivity. recession == large supply == stagnant wages.

[Ardy123]

i was trying to stay out of this, but i need to put this single response in here.

 i am a business owner. i own a 3 bay auto repair shop. i work 6 days a week, 10+ hours a day. i had a part time employee. i started him off at $20/hour, based on the credentials he provided to me. that is very good pay for a mechanic. most will never start a mechanic at that rate of pay, nor will most pay a mechanic that much if he is unable to diagnose(which this guy couldn't).

 i paid for his lunch every day. if he needed  a little extra money, i fronted it ot him. i took very good care of this guy. the only reason he left, was due to the fact he needed full time work, and i didn't have the work/money to pay him full time. if he was still with me, i'd probably have had him to full time by christmas.

 i make a decent profit. i pay all of my taxes on that profit.  i work my butt off. much harder than i did when i was working for someone else. sometimes i long for the days when i worked for someone else, having fixed hours. when i do, i just walk out in the parking lot, and look back at the shop with MY name over the bay doors. then i realize how worth it it is to me to work the crazy hours i do.
 those crazy hours have let me get a nice car, which i otherwise may not have afforded. they make it easier to pay my mortgage. they let me take care of mom better(although she fights me on this...she doesn't like taking help or money from me)

 what i'm getting at, is it sounds like you're assuming business owners don't care. if i'm assuming incorrectly, i apologize. i treat my employees as i have been treated at jobs i've worked at...which is very good.

 many of us are working our butts off to make something of ourselves. please don't assume we don't care.

you are a rarity cap 

Most see the recession as an opportunity to exploit.  The failure this has is that in all biz what one is ultimately investing in is people, not filling roles, many MBAs & bean counters haven't gotten the memo. Harvard Biz review has an excellent, albeit old article on this in regards to the the Johnsonville sausage company.

[zack1234]

Thats not quite how it works... supply of workers drives their pay, not their productivity. recession == large supply == stagnant wages.

Yes.

Capitalists want a large supply of workers to keep wages down. This is why they built the "Channel Tunnel" in the UK to bring in cheap labor from the Eastern Europe. For every £5 pound they earned here was worth £20 in Eastern Europe. The Capitalist was able to reduce cost and maximize profits because the new intake of employee's were working all hours because relatively low wages in reality for  "Them" were great.

The downside is that the British workers are having to work for less money to stay in work, the people who turn round and say this is because the British workers are lazy and are demanding to much money are just being silly and short sighted.

This is why your Steel Industry has gone down the toilet because they have people in India doing the  job for 1/10 of the wages.

The free market is the "ONLY" way to stimulate economies but unfettered Capitalism has its drawbacks such as the social impact on societies and the recessions that occur because of lack of financial control.

I went to Florida a couple of years ago, very nice people, but the poverty I saw of the beaten track was very upsetting. (I was born in house with outside toilet and cobbled streets by the way in 1965).

Ask Yarbles he is a investment banker I told him about the problems in the City and the imminent recession.

Oh by the way I am going to buy a new car, not on credit  but with cash... Its called "saving your money up"

[R 105]

You pay those taxes so Romney and people like him don't have to

When was the last time a poor person hired you to work? Oh never. The higher the taxes are on business the less they have to hire and invest in growth. The way to get America or any other countries economy rolling is to cut corporate tax all together since they only pass it on to the consumer anyway. Cut capital gains to 5% and dump the EPA, it is the biggest job killer in history. Do this and jobs will poor into the US.

  If you think taxing the rich is the way to prosperity look a California, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, New Your and all of the northeast. They are all on the verge of bankruptcy from 60 years of irresponsible voting. Now look at low tax states like Texas, Florida and other southern states with very low taxes and no state income tax at all. Texas accounted for 49% of all job growth in the US in the last 5 years. The socialist model has never worked any place it was tried. Read The road To Serfdom by Friedrick Hayek to start if you want to learn something other than what you hear from the news media.   

[guncrasher]

When was the last time a poor person hired you to work?

when was the last time a guy with no money bought your product or services?


semp

[zack1234]

If you Yanks can access the BBC there are three programs about wealth at present the three are Hayek,Maynard Keynes and Marx.

R105 consumers need jobs to benefit from tax cuts. Its a economic fact look it up that the working mans wages has not risen in real terms for the past 10 years in Britain and for the last 15 years in the US.

Don't get all angry look it up, I repeat don't get all angry LOOK IT UP.

The unrestricted working practices of the Financial sector (BANK) are a testament to Hayek .

The Chinese are socialist and they have stole all your kinsman's jobs

Please don't mention the word "Socialism" is serves no purpose and gets people angry, it took me months to clear those reds from under my bed

Stalin said if he lived in Britain he would vote Conservative because they could not help themselves for being greedy and he would shoot the Socialists because there were the betrayer's of the Proletariat

Get my Gunn boy!  

[RngFndr]

Economic power is shifting away from the USA, this is intentional..
China is the new favored superpower by the elite.. They have a totalitarian
society, slave labor, eugenics programs, organ harvesting.. All those Statist
wetdreams are reality in China, that is why the big money is moving there..

America is to be DEindustrialized, eliminated as a sovereign nation.. Folded into
the "North American Union".. The US constitution is being gutted right now..
This is why these new crippling restrictions are being placed on the US economy..
While the favored "International Corporations" are being exempted from them..

This why the rights of US Citizenship are being intentionally eroded.. Our borders
left wide open, and foreigners being given benefits that our own citizens cannot..

America is being intentionally hamstrung, and kicked in the gonads..
Step by step, this plan is being carried out.. Elections mean nothing anymore..
Just a Kabuki show for the weak minded, or self deluded.. R's and D's are just
two sides of a wooden nickel.. The same bureaucrats, that are appointed not
elected, are the ones with the real power.. They all come from the same pool,
no matter which political party is in power.. And the owned presstitute media
provide cover and make excuses and diversions to keep the herd distracted..

There are SO MANY clear indications of this, right in front of us..
People know subconsciously that this is happening, they can FEEL IT..
But many just refuse to look at "the elephant", pretending it doesn't exist..
And some, have sold themselves to it, hoping to gain an advantage over
others, during and after this intentional collapse.. Traitors!

This progomme was clearly laid out a generation ago.. People said it was crazy..
Now we see the results! BUT, people continue to say this is "Stupidity" or "ineptitude"
on behalf of our elected "leaders".. LOL, yeah sure.. These activities are too concerted
orchestrated, well timed, to be ineptitude.. If you can't see that, the stupidity is YOUR OWN!

   Trap is almost closed! 

[R 105]

when was the last time a guy with no money bought your product or services?


semp

I am always surprised by how many people can not understand how the capitalist system works. It is why America became the greatest nation in the history of the world and why we are the richest population with the highest standard of living ever. We only started to fade once we as a nation moved away from what got us here to start with. I am old enough to remember how the country was before the non producers discovered they could vote themselves a living from the national treasury. Once the United States has been destroyed where are you going to go to find this life we have here in this great country?  We are all the stands between you and a new dark age.

[zack1234]

R105 - Sub prime and Lehman's - Hayek

If you ignore me R105 I will go away

[RTHolmes]

If you Yanks can access the BBC there are three programs about wealth at present the three are Hayek,Maynard Keynes and Marx.

brilliant series that, Stephanie Flanders has explained pretty complex economic theories in a way that almost anyone can understand

[zack1234]

She looks mucky as well