Best Bomber Killer

[MK-84]

2 20mm's is a whole lot of added firepower.  And although you are correct that the K4 performance is better, Against bombers I would rather take the G14.  The extra speed doesnt matter much against bombers, You face compression with either plane if you take it in too fast.  I'm competent aiming a 30mm, but I'm a whole lot better with the 20mms, this allows me to use all guns at once, or a combination which allows me to better conserve ammo and deliver a more lethal blow, and still have ammo to continue the fight.  Fighting bombers in the G14 gives me enough speed, climb rate and firepower to dictate how I want to attack at all but the most extreme altitudes.  The performance gain against bombers that a K4 gives me is not worth losing two extra cannons.  z

[Chalenge]

Sorry but the 109 is not the plane to take to 30k or more. The K4 is the only one with enough speed to be useful that high and it does not have the knock down power unless you fly with a wingman. The much loved Hog is pretty useless also as well as the P-51. If you are flying to 27k and above to attack escorted bombers then even the Jugs are not enough. A jug can get some random hits or well aimed hits and either wound a pilot or set a bomber on fire but even eight .50s at that alt are difficult for most pilots to bring to bear and knock a bomber down in one pass. The one thing the Jug has going for it is that it has speed and it can fight at altitude but it takes experience to do it well.

Ths Spit 14 has the ability to climb and at altitude it can kill just about any fighter even against a better pilot. Yes its that good. The problem is it is fragile. There will be argument over that point but thats just the way it is. A Jug, a Ta152, or even a 38 can take repeated hits on headon attacks against a bomber and they wont fall apart. A Spit 14 will break.

The Ta152 on the other hand has speed and guns. It can climb with the best of them. At altitude the WEP can recover in as little as 30 seconds. It can kill any bomber in one pass.

Any one of these planes are useless without the experience of flying them. I hear people all the time complain about flying to altitude and losing their radiator or getting wounded or losing a wing and so on. Yes that will happen. Keep flying and you will get it.

Any one of the bombers in this game can be very tricky to attack above 32k. At 35k the B29 is so fast it will take time and more than one attacker to overwhelm them. Our bomber pilots online are getting trickier every day. They do things that will surprise you. Just be patient and attack them properly and you will go home and they will not.

[Tank-Ace]

2 20mm's is a whole lot of added firepower.  And although you are correct that the K4 performance is better, Against bombers I would rather take the G14.  The extra speed doesnt matter much against bombers, You face compression with either plane if you take it in too fast.  I'm competent aiming a 30mm, but I'm a whole lot better with the 20mms, this allows me to use all guns at once, or a combination which allows me to better conserve ammo and deliver a more lethal blow, and still have ammo to continue the fight.  Fighting bombers in the G14 gives me enough speed, climb rate and firepower to dictate how I want to attack at all but the most extreme altitudes.  The performance gain against bombers that a K4 gives me is not worth losing two extra cannons.  z

The speed isn't really used when engaging the bombers, but the combination of greater top speed, better climb, and better acceleration means you hit the bombers sooner, that you can make more passes in the same ammount of time, and that enemy fighters will have a harder time engaging you.


Also note that those numbers for the G-14 are for a clean, light G-14, with no gunpods, DT's, and minimum fuel. If you're loaded up for bombers, quite possibly you'll be down to around 380 at alt, and will be taking a fairly severe hit in climb rate.

Now, the same applys for the K4 as well, although to a lesser extent (since it has less drag than the G-14 to start with, you can't pack on gondolas, and it has more hp to overcome the drag), but the K4 is also starting from a possition of better (significanlty better) preformance, and so can take the hit better than the G-14.


Personally, I feel the 20mm's are rather superflous, since they do less than 1/10th the damage of the 30mm, and even a few well-placed hits will knock down a bomber. Of course, I'm also comfortable with the 30mm against fighters too, so the aiming isn't as big of an issue for me.

And thats also just my own personal preference, too; I also enjoy mixing it up in the 110, so what the hell do I know about whats tacticaly sound  ?

[Krusty]

Not sure where you get 1/10th from. 3x 20mm rounds are about as powerful as 1x 30mm, last I recall. And you have a lot more ammo with them. Not to mention you're at least doubling your potential firepower with them. When attacking bombers, every bit helps. Even 7mms on earlier 109/190 models. Every bit can only help.

Remember we're not talking dogfighting, escorting, etc... just bomber hunting.

[Tank-Ace]

Hes talking about the 30mm + 2 20mm's.

And as for the damage, I was thinking of the .50 cal, which has a damage value of ~1, as opposed to ~11 for the 30mm.


Total damage capacity probably favors the G-14, but it seems most are much less efficient with the 20mm's, than the 30mm.

If I had to guess, its probably people holding down the trigger till they see something happen with the 20mm's, as opposed to firing a short burst with the 30mm's.

The other possibility might be the fact that most tend to fire the 30mm's at very close range, and so have a short firing window in which to hold down the trigger.



And hunting kind of implys that you're already at altitude, which largely negates the 109s' advantage of climb rate.

Now intercepting... thats another matter entirely.

[Krusty]

climb rate also means acceleration, which also means you can make more than 1 pass, even if you're already at alt. You need to reposition.

Personal accuracy with the 30mm is skewed because you only get 60-odd rounds. You're going to wait or you're going to rtb empty. That doesn't mean the 20mms are any worse. I've flown a 109f for many years and generally average about 20 rounds fired per kill with my single 20mm gun. I've taken out 3x B-24s with a yak9u's single 20mm with 120 rds total, and had some left over! I've taken out 3x B-17s in a 109E and had 24 rounds left over (out of 120 total). If you're sloppy with the 20mm you'll be sloppy with the 30mm. All other things being equal you can open fire further out, more consistently and land more hits with a 20mm. You can land a solid burst of 20-40 rounds whereas a 30mm the same run might net you 2 hits.

So, personal aiming and skills aside, assume that's all equal. The 20mm are a good gun for bombers. Generally if you have more than 2 that's better, but 2 will do.

[Karnak]

As long as I don't have to go to far above 20,000ft I have found the Mosquito Mk VI to be perfectly serviceable as a bomber killer even though it lacks 30mm cannons.

[Krusty]

On the surface, yes. However every time I've ever done it 1 pass nets me an instant pilot wound or death. I've never made it out of an attack run on bombers when in a mossie. It's a major drawback for me.

[Karnak]

It used to be that way several years ago, but after they adjusted its damage model I haven't had much of an issue with it.

I will admit I greatly favor slashing attacks rather than head on or straight up the six attacks.

[Tank-Ace]

Personal skill should under no circumstances be ignored in this thread, Krusty.

Personal skill dictates how efficiently and effectively you can use each weapon, or even just attack bombers in general.

I, personally, can use the 30mm. If I can kill a bomber with 4 30mm rounds, and get 4+ 30mm hits per pass, then I have no need to use the 20mm, and sacrafice performance to do so.

Therefore, the K4 is a better bomber hunter and interceptor, for me, than the G-14. Why? Because I don't need 20mm's for hunting bombers.


In addition, you admit that climb and acceleration aid in repositioning, and making another pass. The K4 beats the G-14 in that regard. Quite soundly, above 20k.

K4 has ALL advantages over the G-14, aside from firepower, which is still far more than adequate on the K.




Also, your argument assumes that people will think, reason, and act the same when packing 30mm's as opposed to 20mm's, which is false. People will be aware that they only have 65 rounds, and so will be more conservative with their ammunition.

If people are wastefull with the 20mm's, they won't nessicarily be wastefull with the 30mm, because that 65 displayed on the ammo counter makes them feel like they have little to work with, and so need to be very carefull (not really the case).


And conversely, if you are carefull with the 30mm, you won't nessicarily be carefull with 20mm's, or with .50's.



And I've taken out a bomber with the 109K's 13mm's before. Qartering head on pass, from about ~2 o'clock, holding the 30mm's for a bit closer range (was at D800). I fire the 13mm's, and they go right into the cocpit.


You can kill bombers with .30's, and still have ammunition left over. You can also do so with the 20mm, or the 30mm. Hell, you can do it with the 50mm or the 75mm. Nobody's arguing that. And I don't think anyone is saying that 20mm's are inherently more efficient.

However, I AM saying that PILOTS will tend be more efficient with the 30mm, because they feel they have to count every round.

[Eric19]

As long as I don't have to go to far above 20,000ft I have found the Mosquito Mk VI to be perfectly serviceable as a bomber killer even though it lacks 30mm cannons.

I have done the same to B29s at 25k I was at 30k when I spotted them on there RTB in my mossie I love the firepower of the Mossie I have had some success with when I'm already at alt or the bombers happen to be at 15k or lower

the Mosquito is an awsome bomber killer if used right and no escorts are around to ruin your fun 

[Karnak]

I have done the same to B29s at 25k I was at 30k when I spotted them on there RTB in my mossie I love the firepower of the Mossie I have had some success with when I'm already at alt or the bombers happen to be at 15k or lower

the Mosquito is an awsome bomber killer if used right and no escorts are around to ruin your fun 

As long as the bombers aren't much above 25k it does ok as an interceptor too because its climb rate is middling and it has lots of fuel endurance.  I have done long, interception flights in it taking advantage of its fuel endurance.

I do wish we had the Mosquito Mk 30 though.  High blown engines would be very nice.

[Scotty55OEFVet]

I have been away for over a year now so I am not sure how the 410 has fared as a bomber killer, but I had settled into the Mossy when it came to buff hunting. The wooden frame tends to allow you to take a lot of rounds and the 4 20mm in my honest opinion allows you to saw the wings off a buff relatively quickly. But, it comes down to your approach I think more than anything and as has been mentioned in other posts, a frontal attack on buffs is the prefered method because A)It minimizes the the amount of guns the Bombers can bring to bear and B) you have a very good chance of hitting the vital parts of the plane such as the cockpit and front of the engines

[Chalenge]

To which I will add. . . hit the drones first. If you manage to knock out one engine on a B29 you will slow the entire formation down because that one plane will not be able to keep up and no one wants to lose even one B29.