CC Permit

[mbailey]

and now I may lose it as my wife is taking a liking to it 

Lost a Glock 19 to this exact cause 

[Rich46yo]

I have one for OD. Nice gun but its designed for a midgets hands. I hear theres a 10 rnd mag for it that also functions as a grip extender. .38/9mm is the absolute smallest I'd ever carry for defense. In the last 30 years weve had a huge increase in the caliber size and power of weapons criminals and gangstas use. The idea of CC is to survive so in carrying a plinker you are defeating the purpose your supposed to be preparing for. Honestly I only feel properly armed with a long gun in my hands.

Wow, you have to qualify in Texas?

Small hands?  Try the Ruger LCP .380.  Got one for the wife.  Quite the pocket cannon.

Still wouldn't want to get hit in the head with one...

[SilverZ06]

Here is what I was using for CC.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_775003_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
It is a great small carry piece that fits in your front pocket and with the right holster, looks like a wallet. However, This little thing is NOT a target practice gun. A .357 magnum weighing in at only 11oz kicks like a mule on cocaine. I could only shoot about 10-15 rounds through it at the range before my hand started bleeding. The rubber from the grip would literally peel your skin off between your thumb and index finger.

[SmokinLoon]

I carried concealed a Walther PPK in .380 ACP for over 12 years.  I shot it often and I shot it well (at the range and at pistol courses).  Thing is though, I have big hands and I was getting "bitten" on the webbing of my hand when the slide came back during firing.  I simply dealt with it because I really liked the PPK.  In 2002 I fired a Sig 232 in .380 ACP and instantly fell in love with the pistol.  It ultimately is not any bigger than the PPK, the grip has a slight palm swell and it also has a slight "beaver tail" on the top of the back strap of the grip preventing me from getting bit by the slide when fired.  I traded in my PPK in 2002 and since then I've been carrying concealed the Sig 232 in a Galco open top holster as often as I can.

Thankfully, I've not ever had to use it.   

Remember, some guys will give all kinds of advice based on an opinion without any substance behind it.  I approach the debate of gun, caliber, and role from a very open minded position.  I've been reloading and shooting for over 20 years now and I've been in law enforcement for 11.  I've been to multiple shooting clinics including Thunder Ranch and multiple LEO courses.  Am I an expert?  No, but who is and by what standard?  Here is my take on CCW handguns: As for the gun, for CCW purposes it needs to be small.  A full size Beretta 92, 1911, S&W 686, or other such full size handgun defeats the purpose in most cases.  They are simply too large and heavy to keep concealed by typical means.  In terms of caliber, remember that the shooter *needs* to practice with the gun and if it is not fun to shoot or able to be shot in a comfortable manner to gain good and consistent accuracy then what is the point?  IMO, it is real simple.  The smaller the gun and the larger or higher pressure the caliber the less likely a person is apt to practice with it thanks to a healthy recoil and muzzle jump.  Sure, some shooters can shoot anything at anytime and do well, I'd like to think I am one of those people.  But to the bulk of the shooters I highly suggest that the smaller the gun the smaller the caliber.  With that in mind, I think the .22LR and .25 ACP are too small to be of much use in defense especially if the target is wearing a winter coat or even a heavy sweatshirt.  On the other hand, the .45 ACP, .357 Mag, and even the .40 S&W are too big because of the reasons mentioned earlier (small gun and big caliber = hefty recoil, muzzle jump, noise, and a tendency to be less accurate).  The .380 ACP, 9mm Luger, and .38 Special are about perfect when considering the size of gun that has been suggested, the role in which the gun will be used, and the ease in which the user can practice and learn the gun for CCW purposes.  Last note:  in regards to what brand all I can say is this: avoid the cheap POS's as much as possible.  The Lorcins, Phoenix Arms, etc.  They are truly junk.  Otherwise you cant really go wrong. 

This is all my opinion, but after shooting the dozens and dozens of firearms and calibers, in a multitude of different roles, I feel I can offer a new guy and maybe even an "old dog" a few insights as to what to look for in a CCW handgun.       

[Motherland]

In a world where people debate the effectiveness of 9mm for self defense, I'm pretty surprised that someone would even consider .22LR

[Dimebag]

In a world where people debate the effectiveness of 9mm for self defense, I'm pretty surprised that someone would even consider .22LR

I have the same SR22 but with the laser pointer.  I've already decided if the need arises, teeth will be the bulls eye.

[SmokinLoon]

In a world where people debate the effectiveness of 9mm for self defense, I'm pretty surprised that someone would even consider .22LR

Very true.  Some people will still load up their .22LR revolvers or semi auto pistols and use them for CCW, and that is there choice.  Considering that the typical .22LR is a 40gr bullet of very soft metal (usually lead or a soft copper alloy) moving at a nominal 1400 fps at the muzzle, the chances of that bullet penetrating deep enough to do much damage to vital organs is very slim.  In a best case scenario the bullet would hit a major artery.

The 9mm Parabellum/Luger/NATO is certainly considered "low end" in the realm of combat cartridges in terms of FMJ's, but through in the +P+ (high pressure) and a quality hollow point bullet and the playing field is very much leveled vs the larger semi-auto pistols.  The .40 S&W and .45 ACP have very little if any benefit once performance ammo is introduced.  Of course there will be those people who will want to pull up the wound cavity studies and state that the 9mm is "inferior", but will it matter if the wound cavity is 8in, 10in, or 11in in diameter when performance ammo is used?  About the only legit combat pistol cartridge that has a true advantage is the .357 Sig, it fires the same bullet as the 9mm but at about another 400-500 fps faster.  The extra velocity helps make a difference.  Most people fall in to 1 of 2 categories: high velocity vs heavy bullet weight.  I subscribe to the "whatever you can shoot accurately and yet carry discretely" category in terms of CCW.            

[SmokinLoon]

I have the same SR22 but with the laser pointer.  I've already decided if the need arises, teeth will be the bulls eye.

You do know that it has been proven that laser pointers hinder your reaction time, yes?  It also gives you something else to be distracted by in a situation in which you need to go "on target" while you communicate, move, or otherwise perform different functions while keeping the gun on guard. You look for the laser instead of pointing and/or looking down the sights at the target.  You've added a step which typically is not needed.  Just food for thought.   

[Dimebag]

again, if the need arises, I'll be using my eyes first and going for teeth.  Laser is only for if you get in a punch and my vision is blurred, then I'm just hittin you somewhere to slow you down if not stop you.

SR9C is on order anyway so the 22 is fixing to be retired...  but the laser is moving over from the 22 to the 9 incase ^^ happens

[VonMessa]

Very true.  Some people will still load up their .22LR revolvers or semi auto pistols and use them for CCW, and that is there choice.  Considering that the typical .22LR is a 40gr bullet of very soft metal (usually lead or a soft copper alloy) moving at a nominal 1400 fps at the muzzle, the chances of that bullet penetrating deep enough to do much damage to vital organs is very slim.  In a best case scenario the bullet would hit a major artery.

The 9mm Parabellum/Luger/NATO is certainly considered "low end" in the realm of combat cartridges in terms of FMJ's, but through in the +P+ (high pressure) and a quality hollow point bullet and the playing field is very much leveled vs the larger semi-auto pistols.  The .40 S&W and .45 ACP have very little if any benefit once performance ammo is introduced.  Of course there will be those people who will want to pull up the wound cavity studies and state that the 9mm is "inferior", but will it matter if the wound cavity is 8in, 10in, or 11in in diameter when performance ammo is used?  About the only legit combat pistol cartridge that has a true advantage is the .357 Sig, it fires the same bullet as the 9mm but at about another 400-500 fps faster.  The extra velocity helps make a difference.  Most people fall in to 1 of 2 categories: high velocity vs heavy bullet weight. I subscribe to the "whatever you can shoot accurately and yet carry discretely" category in terms of CCW.            

We laid out 5 of the most popular handguns and my wife kept going back to the Ruger LCP.  I know most guys have hands too big for it, but for her, it is a perfect fit in her hand and in her purse.  She absolutely loves it.  She is damn accurate with it and considers it comfortable enough that she carries it all the time, as opposed to, the .38 revolver I had gotten her which is the most important thing...

[Shuffler]

Here is what I was using for CC.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_775003_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
It is a great small carry piece that fits in your front pocket and with the right holster, looks like a wallet. However, This little thing is NOT a target practice gun. A .357 magnum weighing in at only 11oz kicks like a mule on cocaine. I could only shoot about 10-15 rounds through it at the range before my hand started bleeding. The rubber from the grip would literally peel your skin off between your thumb and index finger.
(Image removed from quote.)

You don't want to test with that though. If you do then you can only carry a wheel gun. Test with a semiauto and you can carry either.

[Shuffler]

I carried concealed a Walther PPK in .380 ACP for over 12 years.  I shot it often and I shot it well (at the range and at pistol courses).  Thing is though, I have big hands and I was getting "bitten" on the webbing of my hand when the slide came back during firing.  I simply dealt with it because I really liked the PPK.  In 2002 I fired a Sig 232 in .380 ACP and instantly fell in love with the pistol.  It ultimately is not any bigger than the PPK, the grip has a slight palm swell and it also has a slight "beaver tail" on the top of the back strap of the grip preventing me from getting bit by the slide when fired.  I traded in my PPK in 2002 and since then I've been carrying concealed the Sig 232 in a Galco open top holster as often as I can.

Thankfully, I've not ever had to use it.   

Remember, some guys will give all kinds of advice based on an opinion without any substance behind it.  I approach the debate of gun, caliber, and role from a very open minded position.  I've been reloading and shooting for over 20 years now and I've been in law enforcement for 11.  I've been to multiple shooting clinics including Thunder Ranch and multiple LEO courses.  Am I an expert?  No, but who is and by what standard?  Here is my take on CCW handguns: As for the gun, for CCW purposes it needs to be small.  A full size Beretta 92, 1911, S&W 686, or other such full size handgun defeats the purpose in most cases.  They are simply too large and heavy to keep concealed by typical means.  In terms of caliber, remember that the shooter *needs* to practice with the gun and if it is not fun to shoot or able to be shot in a comfortable manner to gain good and consistent accuracy then what is the point?  IMO, it is real simple.  The smaller the gun and the larger or higher pressure the caliber the less likely a person is apt to practice with it thanks to a healthy recoil and muzzle jump.  Sure, some shooters can shoot anything at anytime and do well, I'd like to think I am one of those people.  But to the bulk of the shooters I highly suggest that the smaller the gun the smaller the caliber.  With that in mind, I think the .22LR and .25 ACP are too small to be of much use in defense especially if the target is wearing a winter coat or even a heavy sweatshirt.  On the other hand, the .45 ACP, .357 Mag, and even the .40 S&W are too big because of the reasons mentioned earlier (small gun and big caliber = hefty recoil, muzzle jump, noise, and a tendency to be less accurate).  The .380 ACP, 9mm Luger, and .38 Special are about perfect when considering the size of gun that has been suggested, the role in which the gun will be used, and the ease in which the user can practice and learn the gun for CCW purposes.  Last note:  in regards to what brand all I can say is this: avoid the cheap POS's as much as possible.  The Lorcins, Phoenix Arms, etc.  They are truly junk.  Otherwise you cant really go wrong. 

This is all my opinion, but after shooting the dozens and dozens of firearms and calibers, in a multitude of different roles, I feel I can offer a new guy and maybe even an "old dog" a few insights as to what to look for in a CCW handgun.       

My father in law used to carry a .380. One night some dog got in his fence and was attacking his old dog. He went out to stop it. The dog tried to attack him. He shot the dog in the head at least 2 times and the dog kept comming. He ended up hitting it in the head several times before it went down.

He quit using it as his carry at that time.

That was his personal experience.

[SilverZ06]

You don't want to test with that though. If you do then you can only carry a wheel gun. Test with a semiauto and you can carry either.

In Florida you don't even test with your own gun. Basically they have a gun sitting on the table at the range. You simply pick the gun up, shoot one round, and set the gun back down. They basically just check to see you can safety handle the gun. They don't even care if you hit or missed the Target 10' in front of you. LOL. Kinda scary how easy it is to get a permit here.

[VonMessa]

In Florida you don't even test with your own gun. Basically they have a gun sitting on the table at the range. You simply pick the gun up, shoot one round, and set the gun back down. They basically just check to see you can safety handle the gun. They don't even care if you hit or missed the Target 10' in front of you. LOL. Kinda scary how easy it is to get a permit here.

Ha!

Fill this out...      http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CD0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.co.venango.pa.us%2Findex.php%2Fcomponent%2Fdocman%2Fdoc_download%2F388-application-for-pa-licence-to-carry-firearm%3FItemid%3D&ei=U3R9UOGKLue80QH9-YGgBw&usg=AFQjCNHr-hQ0Vq2RnujyidxQFrPsMutDlg&sig2=b0UJ_fU074QM8YmEmhlGoA

Turn it in.

Pay $25

Go get a cup of coffee down the hall.

Come back.

Look at camera.

Smile.

Take license from Sherrif's deputy.

Continue on with your day (with a CCW license in your pocket)

[Shuffler]

In Florida you don't even test with your own gun. Basically they have a gun sitting on the table at the range. You simply pick the gun up, shoot one round, and set the gun back down. They basically just check to see you can safety handle the gun. They don't even care if you hit or missed the Target 10' in front of you. LOL. Kinda scary how easy it is to get a permit here.

lol I heard Florida was easy to aquire a license. I'm wondering who can judge how safe someone handles a weapong with one shot and not even loading.