Author Topic: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...  (Read 11659 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #195 on: October 26, 2012, 04:18:46 PM »
I wonder why the Navy dumped the Buffalo and went with the F4F?  In AH, which is the superior plane? 

Because it was obsolete by 1940 and the airframe had reached its limits which made the installation of things like a more powerful engine impossible.  In AH, the Model B-239 is far more maneuverable than the Wildcat but Wildcat has a better speed and climb rate which it can use to get above the Brewster.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #196 on: October 26, 2012, 04:21:34 PM »
I wonder why the Navy dumped the Buffalo and went with the F4F?  In AH, which is the superior plane? 
The one with naval gear?

What people don't seem to get is that the B-239 the Finns got is a lot lighter than the F2A-3s the USN and US Marines had.  Essentially think of it this way, the earliest F2A was better than the earliest F4F, but the F4F had a lot more development potential and so the F4F-4 was better than the F2A-3.

In a pure, one on one, duel an F2A-1 would probably best an F4F-4 most of the time, but in a war situation with squadron on squadron the superior firepower and survivability of the F4F-4s would probably best the F2A-1s most of the time.
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Offline Greebo

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #197 on: October 26, 2012, 04:26:10 PM »
I wonder why the Navy dumped the Buffalo and went with the F4F?  In AH, which is the superior plane? 

Mainly because Brewster were not a very good company to deal with, their factory was very chaotic and not able to produce enough planes. To make matters worse Brewster reps sold planes to just about every foreign power they could which annoyed the Navy brass no end.

The early Wildcat was considered an inferior plane to the early Buffalo, but then the Navy started specifying more armour etc, which meant more weight. This meant adding powerful engines, which were in turn heavier. Grumman were able to update their design to cope with this better than Brewster. The Buffalo suffered from landing gear failures as its weight increased where the Wildcat didn't. The final nail in its coffin was that the Buffalo's fuel tanks were integral to the wing structure, rather like the Betty bomber's. This made it much harder to add self sealing fuel tanks than to the Wildcat.

The early lightweight Brewster we have is a more maneuverable plane than the heavier F4F-4 which has more guns, armour and  the weight of a folding wing mechanism to lug around. The earlier F4F-3 would do better, as it was a lighter with the same power.

Offline Rino

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #198 on: October 26, 2012, 09:11:39 PM »
     Also the Grumman company had a very strong relationship with the Navy that lasted for decades before and after the Buffalo.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #199 on: October 27, 2012, 07:59:04 AM »
I wonder why the Navy dumped the Buffalo and went with the F4F?  In AH, which is the superior plane? 

If you dig a bit deeper and read the actual history, you'll find your answer.

A plane that does well in a virtual LWMA may not be the best combat aircraft in a real war.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #200 on: October 27, 2012, 08:04:00 AM »
Mainly because Brewster were not a very good company to deal with, their factory was very chaotic and not able to produce enough planes. To make matters worse Brewster reps sold planes to just about every foreign power they could which annoyed the Navy brass no end.

The early Wildcat was considered an inferior plane to the early Buffalo, but then the Navy started specifying more armour etc, which meant more weight. This meant adding powerful engines, which were in turn heavier. Grumman were able to update their design to cope with this better than Brewster. The Buffalo suffered from landing gear failures as its weight increased where the Wildcat didn't. The final nail in its coffin was that the Buffalo's fuel tanks were integral to the wing structure, rather like the Betty bomber's. This made it much harder to add self sealing fuel tanks than to the Wildcat.

The early lightweight Brewster we have is a more maneuverable plane than the heavier F4F-4 which has more guns, armour and  the weight of a folding wing mechanism to lug around. The earlier F4F-3 would do better, as it was a lighter with the same power.

Exactly.

I'm sorry drunken a** didn't see your reply before I replied.

Not only Greebo does the best skins in AH, he also knows the history. Of course, many times, they go hand in hand. :)

Most dumb a**es here just repeat the matra if "Brewster was that, why this did not happen."

Dumb a**es, world full of them.
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Offline oboe

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #201 on: October 27, 2012, 09:41:18 AM »
Q. Did the B-239 have self-sealing fuel tanks?

Offline Wmaker

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #202 on: October 27, 2012, 09:49:37 AM »
Q. Did the B-239 have self-sealing fuel tanks?

Nope. The fuel tanks were integral part of the wing spar and thus couldn't really be sealed. That was one of the reasons why the F4F got prefrerred over the Brewster by the Navy in the end actually. It's funny that the "If Brewster was this...." -crowd don't know this most elemental fact for example.

It is easier to whine than do research.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #203 on: October 27, 2012, 10:02:30 AM »
Nope. The fuel tanks were integral part of the wing spar and thus couldn't really be sealed. That was one of the reasons why the F4F got prefrerred over the Brewster by the Navy in the end actually. It's funny that the "If Brewster was this...." -crowd don't know this most elemental fact for example.

It is easier to whine than do research.
It doesn't seem to flame up like an A6M or G4M in AH though, so I suspect Oboe's question is oriented towards finding out why that is the case.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #204 on: October 27, 2012, 10:17:41 AM »
It doesn't seem to flame up like an A6M or G4M in AH though, so I suspect Oboe's question is oriented towards finding out why that is the case.

This, it seems far more rugged then it should be especially if it has no self sealing fuel tanks. I don't recall one in Aces High I have ever set on fire.
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Offline TwinBoom

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #205 on: October 27, 2012, 10:32:54 AM »
TBs Sounds 
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Offline Butcher

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #206 on: October 27, 2012, 10:42:54 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

You know if I had to vote, D.520 already would get it :)
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #207 on: October 27, 2012, 10:45:01 AM »
It doesn't seem to flame up like an A6M or G4M in AH though, so I suspect Oboe's question is oriented towards finding out why that is the case.

I couldn't have guessed that.

Data, test and all that...
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #208 on: October 27, 2012, 10:46:40 AM »
This, it seems far more rugged then it should be especially if it has no self sealing fuel tanks. I don't recall one in Aces High I have ever set on fire.

I'm sure the test data you supply shortly will remedy this and HTC can adjust the damage model.
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Offline caldera

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Re: I Predict the Next Plane HTC Brings Forth Will Be...
« Reply #209 on: October 27, 2012, 10:53:46 AM »
Most dumb a**es here just repeat the matra if "Brewster was that, why this did not happen."

Dumb a**es, world full of them.

Nope. The fuel tanks were integral part of the wing spar and thus couldn't really be sealed.
It is easier to whine than do research.

This, it seems far more rugged then it should be especially if it has no self sealing fuel tanks. I don't recall one in Aces High I have ever set on fire.

Ditto.  Wmaker will no doubt call you a dumba** whiner.


I'm sure the test data you supply shortly will remedy this and HTC can adjust the damage model.

In not so many words but yes, there it is.  Knew the wait wouldn't be long.  No one dare cast blasphemous dispersions upon the sacred B-239!
The lack of self sealing fuel tanks is no reason for them to catch fire.  ;)
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