Ability to land on concrete at Factory Strats.

[Chilli]

First we are talking HQ, and second they wouldn't. The point is however why should one side be given the chance to "cut corners" and the other side not be able to?

If either team is worried about "the time it takes" they can bail/ditch after there drop. If on the other hand they are worried about grabbing as many perks/points....as I believe the OP is.... they should both have to make the full run.

Fugitive, let me refer to my OP and further try and clarify, as I came to this opinion while questioning a possible glitch (from another thread that I had started) that negated a third or better of my 15 to 20 flights to repair Radar Factories (bailing once and ditching all the others, placing my concern for country abilities above any perk or bomber score points) that had been damaged by ONE sortie of enemy buffs.  That ONE player's action resulted in extending loss of radar from 15 minutes to 5 times that length or better, as well as damage to other strats and downtimes.

Discovered a possible bug in Trinity and posted that information in another thread.  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,340745.0.html  During that process of discovery, I found that it was very inconvenient to say the least, that after dropping my supplies at the factory and landing on what appeared to be concrete, I consistently received a "ditch".

Why not fly back to the base where I came from, you may say...     Well, besides the fact that it was located quite a climb from the strat and nearly a sector away, I could have done this, but then I would never bother to resupply a factory strat.  Herein lies the problem with that.

The new strat pork settings have brought a new importance to the bombers roll in game play.  However, one player may now put significant damage to resupply time of their enemies.  The proper corrective action by the affected country is to mount as many repair supplies as quickly as possible.  Such penalties as not successfully landing at the factories, combined with the extended time to reach and return to an actual base greatly decreases the response by affected country members to participate in the corrective action.

Giving the C47s and escort fighters the ability to land successfully at any factory strat (just as they are able to at HQ) would help keep an equilibrium in game play. 

Since I agree with HTC that rewarding a bomber player for his/ her efforts to fly long distances, enduring difficult odds is achieved by giving successful missions a lasting effect that calls for countermeasures.   I simply question why the rules should be different for landing at HQ than any other strat?  Since you seem to think there should be some equivalency in the time it takes that ONE bomber to achieve his mission and land successfully (which I do also), you must also take into consideration the equivalent effort in demand to reduce 90 plus downtime minutes to 0, in increments of 4 minutes.

Challenge put it in words pretty well in another thread:

This is patently false. If it is a ten minute flight then it is ten minutes times forty-five flights (under the conditions the OP stated) or four-hundred fifty minutes total flight time. During peak flying periods that would take nearly 1/3 of any country out of fighting for ten minutes in order to resupply strats. That has not happened yet. No one person has 7-1/2 hours of their game time to devote to resupply.

Here is where we agree and at heart we are rooting for the same thing, "FUN".

<snip>
The strat changes were made to allow a certain segment of players to do what they like and have it worth their time to do it. There is a counter to it, and that is re-supply. As long as there is balance the game is fun for everyone. Once that balance is lost those one side has fun at the expense of the other. 

[Rob52240]

Resupplying the strats gets you 3.75 perks if you rtb.

You get 3 perks if you don't rtb.

You get 6 perks if you take the time you would have used rtbing and run another load to the strats.

[icepac]

At the HQ, I taxi up to one of the 4 indentions in the HQ building until right before the nose touches.

At the city, I believe I landed on the roof of a building and got a landing.....will have to confirm that.

[The Fugitive]

Below is the original post lets cut it up.

Discovered a possible bug in Trinity and posted that information in another thread.  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,340745.0.html yes, it looks like you found a bug During that process of discovery, I found that it was very inconvenient to say the least, that after dropping my supplies at the factory and landing on what appeared to be concrete, I consistently received a "ditch". so? you said the reason you were doing the runs were to resupply, ditch, or landing doesn't make a differance. With out the bug the supplies still supply.

Why not fly back to the base where I came from, you may say...     Well, besides the fact that it was located quite a climb from the strat and nearly a sector away, I could have done this, but then I would never bother to resupply a factory strat.  Herein lies the problem with that. why not? the buff guy spent all that time running the bombs out there.

The new strat pork settings have brought a new importance to the bombers roll in game play.  However, one player may now put significant damage to resupply time of their enemies.  The proper corrective action by the affected country is to mount as many repair supplies as quickly as possible.  Such penalties as not successfully landing at the factories, combined with the extended time to reach and return to an actual base greatly decreases the response by affected country members to participate in the corrective action. Not so, a single player would have to make another run to damage a base so that the new down times from damaging the strat will take effect. On top of this the attacker has to fly MANY sectors as his base isn't with in a sector of the strat/HQ. So while you have to make a number of runs to bring it back up all those runs could equal the same amount of time the attacker spent making the one run.

Giving the C47s and escort fighters the ability to land successfully at any factory strat (just as they are able to at HQ) would help keep an equilibrium in game play.  

SO changing the safe landing is not about time to resupply quicker because you can already do that, it is about the points/perks you get for doing the run. After all you said " besides the fact that it was located quite a climb from the strat and nearly a sector away, I could have done this, but then I would never bother to resupply a factory strat." so the points/perks ARE important to you, other wise you'd just ditch.....as you were doing anyway.

I'm confused, isn't that what you meant? Or at least it looks like it.   You don't attack your own HQ if you're a friendly.

Yes I know that an attacker can not get a safe landing at an enemy strat/HQ. The point is if your going to give the resupplyer an easy way to land his points/perks, then you might as well allow the attacker to land there as well to get a safe landing and his points/perks. Fair is fair, right?

[Flayed]

-1   

 If it's such a big deal to have to resup then you and your country of choice needs to do a lil better job of protecting the strat.  In other words FIGHT to keep your dar or what have you.   I have myself flown B-24's, 4 sectors into enemy territory unopposed and hit strat several times.   1 person may as you stated "put significant damage to resupply time of their enemies" because they are allowed to.   A spit14 takes no time at all to climb to alt with buffs, maneuvers beautifully at high alt and the 14 costs very few perks not to mention you always look sexier with a 5 bladed prop.    (Just an example, I know there are a few other planes that work well as well    )

 The only time I see much defensive action vs buffs hitting strat is when there is a large mission inbound... Either people just don't seem to think a lone flight of bombers is much of a threat even though a single flight can bring a factory or 2 down to 50 or 60% on a good run or maybe the 1 lil red square of dar is not enough to really make anyone think much of it and sound an alert for those who might be willing to go take on the threat to strat.   I've even flown right through dar rings on my way in and still get no resistance...

 So no I don't see any need to make resup any easier. I think it is fine the way it is (and yes I do my share of resupply).  People simply need to get better at taking out the threat to the strat in the first place.

[titanic3]

Yes I know that an attacker can not get a safe landing at an enemy strat/HQ. The point is if your going to give the resupplyer an easy way to land his points/perks, then you might as well allow the attacker to land there as well to get a safe landing and his points/perks. Fair is fair, right?

Ahhh, ok, gotcha. 

As for the OP, -1. Like others said, re sup, ditch, and come back again and you get even more perks.

[Rob52240]

I'm confused, isn't that what you meant? Or at least it looks like it.  You don't attack your own HQ if you're a friendly.

I've gotten an enemy country to bomb their own HQ before .  I can't wait to do it again.

[Chilli]

Below is the original post lets cut it up.

SO changing the safe landing is not about time to resupply quicker because you can already do that, it is about the points/perks you get for doing the run.  It has already been pointed out that by ditching I unintentionally gamed the system and am already receiving more perks per minute.  Probably the same is true for bomber points, I don't even care.  After all you said " besides the fact that it was located quite a climb from the strat and nearly a sector away, I could have done this, but then I would never bother to resupply a factory strat." so the points/perks ARE important to you, other wise you'd just ditch.....as you were doing anyway.    Most likely I would (but a lot of others wouldn't) continue and wouldn't have brought it up at all if there hadn't been a bug that stopped some of my supplies from taking.

Yes I know that an attacker can not get a safe landing at an enemy strat/HQ. The point is if your going to give the resupplyer an easy way  to land his points/perks,  I expect things to work the way they are advertised, unless there was a big sign somewhere that I missed that said don't land HERE.  The rest of your statement is just pigheaded foolish jabber, even though I have actually landed successfully on concrete in an enemy town with enemy nearby right after it was captured. then you might as well allow the attacker to land there as well to get a safe landing and his points/perks. Fair is fair, right?

Fugi,

I make it a point not to get nasty on any of these supposedly helpful forums.  But for someone to tell ME what it is that I MEANT TO SAY, is just a load of ............ fill in your OWN SENTIMENT.

For whatever reason, that you may have for your opinion please stick to your opinion and leave translating others OUT.   It is obvious to me that you completely ignored the important clues in my OP as well as any follow up. 

MAYBE I NEED TO PUT THIS IN CRAYONS.  YOU SHOULD BE WELL AWARE THAT IT TAKES EXPONENTIALLY MANY MORE SUPPLY DROPS TO UNDO DAMAGE FROM ONE ENEMY PLAYER, WHO IS EQUIPPPED WITH EITHER GUNS TO FIGHT HIS/ HER WAY HOME OR SPEED TO OUTRUN ATTACKERS.  #1  THERE IS A BUG THAT NEGATES THE SUPPLIES RANDOMLY #2 GAME STRATEGY HAS CHANGED.  #3 I DISH IT OUT AS WELL AS I TAKE IT (CAN, HAVE AND WILL CONTINUE TO PUT A HURTIN' ON ENEMY STRATS AND ANY THAT TRY AND STOP ME IN LESS THAN 40 MINUTES LANDED).  #4 SPENDING ALL AFTERNOON RESUPPLYING OR DEMOLISHING BOMBER SCORES IN NO WAY IMPLORES BALANCE.  FINALLY, I LIKE CONSISTENCY.... WHY ARE WE ABLE TO LAND AT HQ AND TOWNS BUT NOT AT FACTORY STRATS IN THE SAME WAY?

A question to Titanic and Flayed:  You notice much of your radar is down in country.  You check the downtime and find out that radar on all of these fields will be down for another 100 minutes.  The only way to reduce the downtime is to repair the damage to Radar Factory to 100% and not one bit less.  You calculate that by the downtime listed for the factory buildings, it will take no less than 25 x 6 minute flights to drop and another 7 minutes to land.  Honestly, what are you going to do?

Honest answers from most would be to forget about it, make a couple of drops and feel duty free, spend that time resupplying only the field that I want dar at the moment, or (most unlikely response) spend next 30 to 45 minutes (with help) repairing the damage.

[Chilli]

Would rolling back to stationary Factories be better, or hard coding the cities and factory locations so that they don't disappear (pack up and leave to move to another location) be better?  Instead only the map icon would move  from one city complex (location) to another, shifting all country penalties to that new site.  (In other words, you could bomb/ damage non-flagged cities and factories but gain no country advantage for doing so).

This morning, I had an epiphany that may offer an explanation of why the concrete works differently for strats.  Some time ago the strat factories became "mobile".  The factories move from one location to another.    I have no idea of the complexities for HTC to make such a feature work, but with that development, I can imagine that although all the structures and surface textures move from place to place, the location of the concrete was either left behind, or never encoded.

Prior to the latest game change that allows exponentially more importance to the strats along with the ability to resupply them, the "loss of concrete" may not have been noticed.  Is there a short cut way for HTC to fulfill this wishlist item, I don't have a clue.   

The above is assuming that the concrete would be encoded at each location in the map.  Again, I would not hold my breath for massive game changes just to allow concrete everywhere, just throwing it out there as possible considerations in future developments down the road.

[The Fugitive]

Fugi,

I make it a point not to get nasty on any of these supposedly helpful forums.  But for someone to tell ME what it is that I MEANT TO SAY, is just a load of ............ fill in your OWN SENTIMENT.

For whatever reason, that you may have for your opinion please stick to your opinion and leave translating others OUT.   It is obvious to me that you completely ignored the important clues in my OP as well as any follow up. 

MAYBE I NEED TO PUT THIS IN CRAYONS.  YOU SHOULD BE WELL AWARE THAT IT TAKES EXPONENTIALLY MANY MORE SUPPLY DROPS TO UNDO DAMAGE FROM ONE ENEMY PLAYER, WHO IS EQUIPPPED WITH EITHER GUNS TO FIGHT HIS/ HER WAY HOME OR SPEED TO OUTRUN ATTACKERS.  #1  THERE IS A BUG THAT NEGATES THE SUPPLIES RANDOMLY #2 GAME STRATEGY HAS CHANGED.  #3 I DISH IT OUT AS WELL AS I TAKE IT (CAN, HAVE AND WILL CONTINUE TO PUT A HURTIN' ON ENEMY STRATS AND ANY THAT TRY AND STOP ME IN LESS THAN 40 MINUTES LANDED).  #4 SPENDING ALL AFTERNOON RESUPPLYING OR DEMOLISHING BOMBER SCORES IN NO WAY IMPLORES BALANCE.  FINALLY, I LIKE CONSISTENCY.... WHY ARE WE ABLE TO LAND AT HQ AND TOWNS BUT NOT AT FACTORY STRATS IN THE SAME WAY?

I used your quote from the original post. I added the answers based on what was there. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but maybe you didn't post what you wanted, and any posts after that you were using as "clarification" could also be deemed "back pedaling" because it didn't really come out the way you wanted. You may not be equipped with guns while making your supply runs, but again, it your HQ and is normally far behind the front making a fighter cap unlikely.

Again, is this post about landing at the HQ and getting your perks, or is it about the time it takes to resupply? Seeing as you mentioned "demolishing your bomber scores" I'm thinking its the perk/points, not the time

[Flayed]

Honest answers from most would be to forget about it, make a couple of drops and feel duty free, spend that time resupplying only the field that I want dar at the moment, or (most unlikely response) spend next 30 to 45 minutes (with help) repairing the damage.

  Honestly I'll usually make a few drops and up the % a bit and then go do something else for a while unless I have other players there and then I am much more likely to hang around and help more when there is someone to chat with while going about the task.
 
  But as I stated before FIGHT and stop the strat from getting hit in the first place and then you don't have to spend time fixing it later.  As far as landing at the HQ and Factories I personally don't think we should be able to. I feel it is a cop out and I always go back to land at the field. I guess it gives me more a sense of realism and decreases the gamy feel. My thought is along the lines of what pilot would air drop sups into a factory and then land on main street and call it good? Chances are your butt would be chewed out for hanging around the pub  and not bringing your plane back to be loaded up for another run. 
  Soo if anything the ability to successfully land a plane anywhere but at a base should not exist in my opinion.  I'll leave dumping sups and bailing (even if I feel it is gamy) but successful landings at factories no if you're going to take a short cut then you shouldn't get the full reward.

   

[crazyivan]

I landed my goon on concrete at HQ and was successful? Anyways I would like to land or refuel on carriers, docked at port. <--Wishing upon a star!

[Chilli]

Flayed,

Thanks for your honest answer.  Were you aware that the % percentage no longer drops?  (Meaning the full penalty of however many minutes per downed strat (say 180 minutes) will remain until the factory buildings pop).  THIS IS NEW, so your couple of drops unless many others join in is pretty much wizzing into the wind.   

As for your assessment of goon pilot dweebness, you have totally missed the target.  Anyone who would take time away from the main enjoyment of the game to resupply damaged radar ability or ability to carry ords for the greater population of his/ her country, has my respect, even if they do it for perk/ bomber points.  Your real world analogy doesn't work in a cartoon game.  How many real world commanders would allow any of the number of things we do in game (including taking a formation of only 3 very expensive, bombers deep into enemy territory alone)?

As for your assessment of stopping bombers, some of us do.  I could name a few decent bombers that would attest to my word on that matter.  Also, as I said before, bombing strats, doing significant damage, killing some defenders and landing safely can easily be achieved in @ 40 minutes.

Fugi,

You keep trying to make this about ME.  That is where YOU are wrong.  This is about encouraging response to strat damage, rather than penalizing.

Yes, landing at factory strat, the same that any resupplier does at HQ, does benefit anyone conscious of their perks and points, just as anyone flying 35k ft. across a whole map in B29s and only dropping town centers and a strat or two benefits from the strong points of that bomber (payload, speed, armament, etc.).  The main difference is the goon pilot is providing a selfless service for the greater good of country. 

You make it seem here that in a few drops a goon pilot would have enough perks and bomber points to fly a B29 or place him number one on the score board.  I wish that you would speak to the REAL INTENT of my post, which is balance.  Since, I can't speak to your experience in resupplying strats, I can only assume from your posts that you either don't think that a hour and half downtime on your country radar is important, or that folks should just flock to resupply out of the goodness of their heart (and flock is what is needed indeed - 4 minute downtime reduction per drop).

[Tilt]

Balance may demand that it takes much effort (and gains as much reward) to repair, as it takes effort (and gains reward) to destroy.

But actually kudos has always been given to the destroyer and/or the defender and rarely the rebuilder

[Flayed]

Flayed,

Thanks for your honest answer.  Were you aware that the % percentage no longer drops?  (Meaning the full penalty of however many minutes per downed strat (say 180 minutes) will remain until the factory buildings pop).  THIS IS NEW, so your couple of drops unless many others join in is pretty much wizzing into the wind.   
[/b]).

  I do believe you are the one who is wrong here as I just spent some time resupping the city strat last night and the % went from 42% to 50% to 56% and then to 64%. I kept my clipboard map open the entire time just to make sure.  Also the entire time a guy was congratulating the resuppers  on the fact that the city down time had decreased from X amount to X amount to X amount as we repaired it.  So to me things would look to be working as I stated.

  Unless your talking about when city is down by so much so the town buildings that are taken down will be down for say 60 min instead of the normal 30 and will stay down for that 60 even if you resup the city.  If so I'd just call it a disruption in supply lines   city was not putting out supplies like it should have been at the time X building was hit and it caused a hiccup in sups for the town, therefor players need to supplement what gets to the town until the city is back up.  I can see a slight issue here but nothing major. In fact this gives me an interesting idea for a fix to this if that is what you are complaining about. I'll need a new thread for that though

"Also, as I said before, bombing strats, doing significant damage, killing some defenders and landing safely can easily be achieved in @ 40 minutes."

 As for this quote I would like to know what type of narcotic you are on.    I took off from a 4K base on baltic map last night in a flight of 24's, climbed to 25K (best alt for speed for the 24) crossed 2 enemy sectors after leveling out and bombed strat for a grand total of 45 min (timed from engine start up on runway to bomb drop on strat).   Baltic is a fairly small map and as I said I lifted from a 4K base shaving that off of climb time, add another 20 to 30 min fly back to land and....   
 NOTE: I was not able to time the flight back due to having a large friendly mission follow me into strat and like I said before defenders dont pop up much unless said large mission shows up. I was swarmed by 163's being that I was at least 25 miles ahead of the mission lol. got 2 of them before going down in flames. 

 I'm starting to think fugi is on the right track here. The only thing not being able to land at the strat is doing is making your bomber score go down as you bail to get another goon. If there is a bug/inconsistency I would say it would be letting people land at the HQ.   
  People always seem to want a short cut through things without having any penalty for taking that short cut.  In this case you have the option to do it right (Fly back and land on a runway) or take the short cut (drop and bail losing some bomber score)

 <S>