Author Topic: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says  (Read 6168 times)

Offline Bludy

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2012, 04:22:35 PM »
PPS -
Because you're new, and ALL of your posts (3 of 3) are in blatant violation, I don't believe you're aware of the HTC's forum posting rules (see #13, and I'll reread #5).

Wow! You've me dead to rights on that. Good job! Thanks for keeping the AH forums safe for democracy. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the purpose of the rule is to keep link baiting off the forum, rather than to discourage actual aviation/warbird article links that the entire community might find interesting.  Thanks to your vigilance, I will forevermore include commentary with any link I share. Now, I'm sure I've taken up enough of your valuable time and I'll let you get back to chastising jay walkers and litterers.
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Offline ACE

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2012, 07:29:17 AM »
Wut? ^
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2012, 08:27:20 AM »
USA is comprised of humans, so is Russia, as viking man pointed out, we had better tools. More important, the attitude that we are some how inarguable better is/will be the reason we are not... Believe we are the same, push for better, and you may get there. Imagine that we are 'super human', we will fail as all others have since the inception of humans who embrace this attitude.

Sage words.

China and Russia are no doubt closing the gap and using our arrogance to speed it along.
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Hazard69

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2012, 09:41:00 AM »
Wow, whats that? the Raptorsky? :rofl :rofl

Here's how I see it though:
I always have and will always believe that Russian aircraft are more maneuverable than the comparable western ones (I'm Indian, so maybe I'm biased :lol). Likewise, I'm also a firm believer than the western avionics will always be better than the comparable ruski ones.

In the world of BVR combat, that pretty much tilts the scales to one side.

However this is all theoretical, built on paper stuff. In a actual combat scenario, far too many other variables will affect the outcome of any combat situation. A major factor Id say would be numbers. If I can scramble 10 Mig21s (hypothetically) for every F22 inbound, expecting to lose 9 of them by the time I get to 10NM, I think the avionics advantage could be overwhelmed.

EDIT: I dunno if this is true or not, but one of my engineering instructors (who used to be in the SAS) told me a story of how once a defecting pilot brought with him a MIG which on inspection was found to be using glass diodes. Everyone thought it was funny that in the age of transistors, they still had glass diodes, until someone realised that glass diodes weren't as susceptible to an EMP as transistors.

Regardless, IMHO, the future will not be seeing many aircraft upgrades. We are now at the beginning of the era of UCAVs, and that will bring a whole new perspective to a battlefield. Also, I doubt the future will see many of these fancy high and mighty techs actually employed in combat. The wars of the future lie on the battlefield of economics, and I think all this mighty show of strength is primarily aimed at that. I built it, I don't yet need to use it, but someday you might need to.....wanna buy?  :devil
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 09:50:41 AM by Hazard69 »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2012, 10:31:28 AM »
Hazard is quite right in that the future of aerial warfare belongs to the UCAV. The Eurofighter, Gripen and Rafale are very likely the last manned combat aircraft to be designed in Europe, that isn't just a bomb truck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSM_t1cJKS8

The nEUROn stealth UCAV is under development with serial production estimated at 2020. BAE is develping their "Taranis". Both the USAF and US Navy are also developing advanced UCAVs. Russians are developing a UCAV based on the MiG Skat demonstrator. These UCAVs are BIG too; around 20,000 lbs, and the size of light jet fighters. So I think the Euros are going to skip the "Raptor generation" and go straight to flying terminators.

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Offline titanic3

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2012, 10:34:15 AM »
And what happens when an aggressor manages to hack the AI? Even one UCAV is enough to do damage. Manned planes, always.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline GScholz

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2012, 11:48:28 AM »
Manned planes, always.

That's not even a reality now.



UCAVs have been hunting and killing people for a long time.
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Offline Stellaris

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2012, 11:52:24 AM »
Go to Aus airpower if you want a very thorough discussion of the issues of stealth, LPI radar, missile kinematics, etc. etc.

Suffice to say, Russia produces some very capable aircraft.  This should come as no surprise to anyone here.  We all know the capabilities of the La-7.  We all know the formidable threat the MiGs posed in Vietnam and Korea.  They were the first with helmet mounted sights, IRST and thrust vectoring.  They were also the first with thrust vectored missiles, multimode missiles, and a bunch of other stuff.  When the cold war ended, western pilots got the chance to fly against Mig-29 and Su-27 directly, and were frequently stunned by the result - and let us not forget who keeps the ISS up there nowadays.  They have never been slouches at aerospace, however bad their cars have been.

Of course, they were last with stealth, lagged for a long time in avionics and radar and had other various issues.  They aren't magic either.

So who will win any particular matchup?  Well, who will win when an LA-7 engages a P-51 - an encounter I'm sure all here are quite familiar with.  The answer is very much, it depends - who has surprise, who has energy, who understands their plane better, and their adversaries.  Modern fighter combat is very complex.  The performance of aircraft built at the same technology level will vary based on two things - one the particular design tradeoffs the designers make, and two, how well they manage to package those tradeoffs.  The P-39 was a brilliant design poorly executed.  The Hurricane was an adequate design very well executed.  The Spitfire - history speaks for itself.

The T-50 is twenty years younger than the F22.  It's got L-band (stealth defeating radar), the IRST, rear quarter radar (so it can launch and run while still guiding), 3D thrust vectoring, its own stealth, and many other goodies.  Do these make it a Raptor killer, or is there a hidden design flaw that makes it a turkey? I wouldn't bet on it.  However history has not yet spoken of the F-22 vs the T-50.  With luck it never will, and the war will be confined to these pages.  

However whoever spoke of Russian production capacity is dead wrong.  Sukhoi producing these in partnership with India and is looking to produce 1000 aircraft, with (I believe) 250 for the Indian Airforce and 250 for the Russian.







Offline titanic3

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2012, 01:05:48 PM »
That's not even a reality now.

(Image removed from quote.)

UCAVs have been hunting and killing people for a long time.

That doesnt mean they still can't be hacked in the future. Murphy's Law.

I understand half UCAV, half manned, that's not a bad thing at all. But 100% UCAV, I doubt it.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline GScholz

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2012, 01:17:14 PM »
What do you mean "half manned" ?
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Offline titanic3

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2012, 01:19:32 PM »
What do you mean "half manned" ?

Ah, I meant half the force is manned planes and the other half is UCAV. Not just an entire air force of UCAVs.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Gman

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2012, 09:53:49 PM »
Quote
The nEUROn stealth UCAV is under development with serial production estimated at 2020. BAE is develping their "Taranis". Both the USAF and US Navy are also developing advanced UCAVs. Russians are developing a UCAV based on the MiG Skat demonstrator. These UCAVs are BIG too; around 20,000 lbs, and the size of light jet fighters. So I think the Euros are going to skip the "Raptor generation" and go straight to flying terminators.

Agree.  Here is China's latest copy of something made by the USA.  Look familiar?  SNORT!  There are pics of it with air to air missiles as well.  The Chinese UCAV's won't be far behind either.  They've released what, 3 different fighter/bomber types in the last year to the public knowledge.  Now this thing....you can be certain that they have copied all the UCAV tech that they've "borrowed" from US and NATO computers as well.



« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 09:56:21 PM by Gman »

Offline Motherland

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2012, 11:20:11 PM »
And what happens when an aggressor manages to hack the AI?
It's not like every single modern aircraft isn't fly by wire anyway. The only difference between a manned and an unmanned aircraft at this point is where the pilot is physically located.

Offline Rob52240

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2012, 01:41:35 AM »
The shape is used to reflect radar away from the source.  You can't stop a plane from reflecting radar energy but you can make it so the plane does not reflect it back to the source.  Also faceted skins are used in all stealthy planes.  This does more of the same but it's integrated into the skin and just below the skin.

All the carbon fiber in the world couldn't make it so the engines and a bunch of other crap isn't metal in the plane.



I'll also point out that the russians are capable of making planes that are as good as anyone else's.  This has been the case since aviation was a fairly new thing.  They even trounced Lindberg before and after he flew to London from New Yowk.

They're better at thrust vectoring too. 

Suck on this, F-22 fans:
http://youtu.be/1GdfnTLKcvM?t=1m42s

Can the F-22 fly straight up vertical and backward at the same time?  I think not.
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2012, 03:26:38 AM »
after watching a video on you tube  i think it was inspired by a 1980's clint eastwood film rather than spying on the USA
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