Author Topic: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown  (Read 1288 times)

Offline Hap

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Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« on: November 17, 2012, 06:55:14 PM »
For those interested:

http://video.pbs.org/video/2202847024

I offer this Frontline 54 min vid because some things matter.  Not as an occasion for folks not to watch it and be unable to control opining.  It is too serious for that.  If you watch it, would love to hear what you have to say.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 07:06:43 PM by Hap »

Offline FTJR

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 09:54:34 PM »
Thanks for sharing,  a great show and a big Salute to all those that did their duty.
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Offline USRanger

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 01:41:38 AM »
I planned on only watching a few minutes of it to check it out.  Ended up sitting there and watching the entire thing.  Thx Hap. :salute
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Offline rpm

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 04:26:10 AM »
People are quick to criticize PBS, yet all they do is crank out quality shows like this. Great stuff.
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Offline Hap

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 05:29:30 AM »
Ty.  All 3 voice my sentiments. 

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 06:23:23 AM »
Certainly an interesting program.
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Offline icepac

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 10:08:20 AM »
Here is a 863 page thread that covers every single event at fukushima.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=480200&page=863

Offline Rolex

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 08:10:22 PM »
There isn't anything in it I didn't know, since the Japanese press hasn't exactly ignored that entire event...  :lol Being 90 miles from the plant make me an above-average interested observer.

Only a few comments:
I think most people would say that Ex-PM Kan was forced to resign because the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) twisted as much as possible to try to regain power, since Kan broke their 60 year stranglehold on the government prior to the quake. Politicians will lie, steal, scheme and stoop lower that normal humans to maintain or gain power.

When people criticize him, saying he downplayed the danger, I wonder what I (or you) would do if we were in the job? It's a tough call. Evacuating the entire Kanto Plain would be like trying to evacuate the entire population of California, Oregon and Washington state. That's a lot of people. Would you want to incite panic? Would you make that call?

This is ongoing. It is not something that's over just because it isn't on the news anymore. Workers still have to be rotated through the plant for the cleanup and it will continue for decades. That is some extraordinary conviction and perseverance. Disposal and/or decontamination of continuously leaking, radioactive cooling water is a continuing problem. Storage of the massive amounts of water being used is a significant logistics problem. Almost no one realizes how big the scale is of the continuing operation there. There are new challenges and problems that have to be solved every day.

The continuing economic nightmare from the tsunami is another topic.

A big lesson that should have been learned from this, in my opinion, is this:
Non engineers should not be leaders of utilities (like TEPCO), or businesses that are based on technology. The TEPCO president at the time came to power as a pedantic cost-cutter with no technical background to appreciate the true risks of his actions. Ironically, he had been the leader of the risk management committee. Maybe it's more like a dark comedy...

I edited this to add one more comment: I'm really tired of it all. I can't imagine how hard it must be on the people working at the plant every day.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 08:16:39 PM by Rolex »

Offline GScholz

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 08:39:28 PM »
I thought it was ironic when many of my countrymen who were visiting Japan were getting on the first plane out of Tokyo to Oslo; even during the height of the crisis the ambient radiation levels in Tokyo were lower than in Oslo.
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Offline icepac

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 11:54:42 PM »
I'm hoping the other plants are learning from this.

They need to stop storing such huge amounts of spent fuel so a simple convective loop can cool the spent fuel ponds.

They need to definately design reactors that can truly go into a cold shutdown such that a convective loop can cool it.

All it takes is for any event to remove powered coolant circulation for a few hours to cause most reactors to start to burn.

Offline Old Sport

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 08:35:18 AM »
The Tokyo FD evidently brought about the turning point for containing the crisis. Their courage leaves me speechless - I once was a firefighter.  :salute

Offline pembquist

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 03:39:48 PM »
Am I correct in remembering that now Japan has gotten completely out of the Nuclear Power business?  And Germany too?

I will allow that it is probably possible to design safe nuclear power plants but I think it is probably impossible to implement them.  My logic is by comparison.  Commercial aviation has been working on safety for decades and is EXTREMELY safe.  However even with a strong successful safety culture there are still accidents. It just doesn't seem possible to cover every contingency as there are always new ones coming into existence.  In aviation you can keep modifying your way of doing things in reaction, in nuclear power one bad accident kind of wipes everything out.

My understanding of risk management is that you put a price on the consequences of failure and then you can judge whether the interventions you make to eliminate that failure are worthwhile.  For instance if a life is worth 2 million you don't spend 2 billion to save it.  Kinda cold blooded but so it goes.  With the case of Fukajima it seems obvious that the cost of failure completely overshadowed the benefit that came out of the entire Japanese nuclear industry over its lifetime.  This is a shame. 
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 05:18:03 PM »
Modern reactor designs are extremely safe, to the point that they simply can't melt down no matter what. The problem is that the vast majority of operating nuclear plants are of 1960s and '70s design.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 11:08:42 PM »
Nuclear power has caused less deaths per kilowatt hour of energy produced than any other means of producing electricity currently in use.

Offline Gh0stFT

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Re: Japan's Nuclear Meltdown
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 07:24:58 AM »
Nuclear power has caused less deaths per kilowatt hour of energy produced than any other means of producing electricity currently in use.

eh...i dont know what source you have this info from, nevermind,
back to Topic, what does your statement mean to Fukushima ?

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