Rank modification

[Lusche]

Just an observation about GV score,, if I never fire a wirble, Osti, or a machine gun,  my hit percentages are a good bit higher, yet that would contradict what I feel is good game play,, IE a player refuses to up a wirble to help another player for fear of his score being reduced by hit percentages,, I don't know what the answer is tho,  I'm sure not recalling anyone saying Richard Bong wasn't one of the best aces because he spent to much ammo,, kills should count as a bigger factor than accuracy

IF you look at the details, you will find similar issues in almost any sub category. Dropping in to help a severly outnumbered teammate on the deck is not good foryour k/d. Nothing hurts k/h more thaqn escorting your big friends to the enemy strats, on ther other side nothing helps your k/h more than vulching fields. Score points are being depending on the amount of time you are spending and so on.

Finally, if you give K/D more weight over the other categories, the result may be more 'cautious' flying...

[mtnman]

Personally, I consider Hit% to be one of the most "valid" indicators of individual fighter skill, and as such I would be opposed to seeing it removed.

I'd rather remove the other facets (that can more easily be skewed, or effected with help from your friends) such as K/D, K/T, and K/S.

If I was going to look at someone's stats and hope to see indicators of that pilot's skill, long-term Hit% averages is where I'd be looking...

[WWhiskey]

Personally, I consider Hit% to be one of the most "valid" indicators of individual fighter skill, and as such I would be opposed to seeing it removed.

I'd rather remove the other facets (that can more easily be skewed, or effected with help from your friends) such as K/D, K/T, and K/S.

If I was going to look at someone's stats and hope to see indicators of that pilot's skill, long-term Hit% averages is where I'd be looking...

except a Niki with four cannons against a jug with 8 fifties,, or any other plane v plane wouldn't be possible in a fair way, considering cannon v machine guns but I would argue it would take less ammo and less skill to get kills with a cannon bird,  303 birds are going to expend a good bit more ammo yet,, and take a very sharp pilot in the LW arena to hold a high K/D ratio

 Again,,, just my opinion!

[coombz]

it is not random. it is discipline.

actually, it's just hunting bombers to pad the hit % ... for the top ranked players at least

[Lusche]

actually, it's just hunting bombers to pad the hit % ... for the top ranked players at least

On the other hand, bomber hunting 'hurts' k/h

[mtnman]

except a Niki with four cannons against a jug with 8 fifties,, or any other plane v plane wouldn't be possible in a fair way, considering cannon v machine guns but I would argue it would take less ammo and less skill to get kills with a cannon bird,  303 birds are going to expend a good bit more ammo yet,, and take a very sharp pilot in the LW arena to hold a high K/D ratio

 Again,,, just my opinion!

Which is the beauty of it being hit PERCENT.  

It doesn't matter what type of ammo, what type of gun, or even whether you get kills or not.  Cannon vs MG matters not.  How much ammo it takes to get a kill matters not.  Hit% is simply hitting or missing what you're firing at.

It simply measures the ability of the individual pilot to hit what he/she is shooting at...  

Sure, it can be skewed short-term by limiting yourself to shooting bombers, etc...  But there really aren't that many easy ways to artificially improve it (to make your skill appear greater).  As such, it's the best (potential) indicator of individual skill (IMO).  

On the other hand, the metrics of K/D, and K/S can easily be skewed (with help from your friends, a squad, or a horde) to artificially improve them (to make your skill appear greater).  As such, these are not good indicators of individual skill (IMO).

K/T can even be improved by simply not RTBing...  Sure, it's detrimental to K/D, but doesn't do much if anything to K/S (heck might even help that), and the hit against K/D doesn't matter much beyond a certain point anyway.

When it comes to attempting to judge an individual's potential skill by looking at metrics, I don't see that it's valid to look at the metrics that don't rely as heavily on individual skill.

Flying with a wingman will help your K/D, and help your K/S.  It won't help your Hit%.  

Your wingman can help you stay alive, but he/she cannot help you hit what you're shooting at...

Hit% is also effected to a great extent by how skillful you are in setting up shots, judging speed, angle, lead, timing, etc...  And with wing-mounted guns, and the requirement that some guns demand more shots on target imposes additional challenge in maintaining a good shot solution over a longer time, or being able to repeatedly set up good shots, etc...  

These are all important skills for a fighter pilot to have, and skills that show up in Hit%, while not showing up as directly in K/D and K/S.  

[WWhiskey]

If I fly a yak-9T and only fire the 37mil chasing bombers and get one hit kills, then bail to save my K/T ratio is that a mark of a better pilot or just one who understands how to game ?  I wouldn't think so,  I love to fly the jugs so I never have a good bullet ratio but I just resign to not have a good fighter score and instead have fun
Anyway.  Have fun and fly for whatever reason you want, every now and then, I get my name in lights as well but there are not many, if any,, who don't partially fly for score and have a ranking of less than 100,, there is to much "house keeping" to maintain a score as low as 100 or less, some might argue 250,  not that there is anything Erin with that!

[Lusche]

Sure, it can be skewed short-term by limiting yourself to shooting bombers, etc...  But there really aren't that many easy ways to artificially improve it (to make your skill appear greater).

Fly exclusively a cannon plane like a N1K in furballs and day to day operations.
Every once in a while, take P-47 or similar into the sky and kill some bombers.


The long time effect on hit% will be considerable 

[kvuo75]

If I fly a yak-9T and only fire the 37mil chasing bombers and get one hit kills, then bail to save my K/T ratio is that a mark of a better pilot or just one who understands how to game ?  I wouldn't think so,  I love to fly the jugs so I never have a good bullet ratio but I just resign to not have a good fighter score and instead have fun
Anyway.  Have fun and fly for whatever reason you want, every now and then, I get my name in lights as well but there are not many, if any,, who don't partially fly for score and have a ranking of less than 100,, there is to much "house keeping" to maintain a score as low as 100 or less, some might argue 250,  not that there is anything Erin with that!

if you can get #1 fighter rank by flying the yak T and killing bombers, then you deserve it


personally i think perks earned per sortie should be another component in each category..

[Hazard69]

Quick not really relevant Question here:

What exactly is it that you can do (apart from running CVs ashore) being Rank#1, that you cannot do as Rank #236782030471910. So whats it matter?

Oh and there isn't a single criteria (hit% included that you cant skew with the help of friends). I could empty entire MG ammo rounds into my friends straight and level bomber formations.

IMHO, the 'try and bring back the damn thing in one piece' mentality should be rewarded more. Too many lancstukas and kamikaze drivers here.  

[mtnman]

Fly exclusively a cannon plane like a N1K in furballs and day to day operations.
Every once in a while, take P-47 or similar into the sky and kill some bombers.


The long time effect on hit% will be considerable  

Yup, like I said there are ways to inflate it; bombers being one.  In the end, it's the pilot's gunnery that matters.  Most pilots in AH have trouble hitting bombers too.  And, if the pilot is regularly shooting bombers this is discernible by looking at his stats.  No secrets...  Over the course of the month though, I don't see many 50% or higher Hit% scores, so most people must not fluff their score too much this way?

The N1K example won't do it easily though, unless you use it exclusively.  And, if you flew it exclusively it wouldn't be an "artificial" inflation.  It would be an accurate representation of the pilot (not his wingman) being able to hit what he shoots at.

The cannon option works against you as much as it works for you...  It kills quicker, so requires fewer shots.  If you also fly anything with MG's, those relatively few cannon rounds won't make much difference at all in your overall Hit%.

In order to have an effect on hit percentage you'd want to maximize the sheer number of hits vs misses.  As mentioned, the bomber is a viable method, since it's a big, slow target.  Conversely, strafing anything other than airplanes will count as a miss (whether you hit it or not) which serves to drag your percentage down.

I've noticed as well that nobody seems to take issue with the idea that K/D and K/S can be easily effected (i.e. artificially inflated) by flying with a squad or wingman?  So aren't a true measure of an individuals skill?  Maybe we could figure out a way to only track those metrics on 1v1 engagements?  These metrics are too easy to "fluff" by diving in and picking an opponent off your buddies 12 o'clock, and/or by having your buddy swing in and pick your opponent off of your six.  Hardly a metric of "skill"...

And those "with help" metrics aren't discernible in the stats are they?  Lots of room for secrets there...

[titanic3]

Question: Who cares?

[Vinkman]

Getting 10% higher K/D can get you a higher sub-rank boost than getting 10% higher hit %. It also seems to me that you are directly comparing number sizes that are not comparable. Going from hit% 7 to 8 is not just "tiny", it's an increase by 14%. It would be the same as if your K/D was going from 7 to 8.



Addendum:

I just checked the actual tour 153 K/D and hit% of all players. In fact, getting much smaller relative improvements in K/D than in hit% did boost you way more.

Lusche, to understand my point you need to examine rank without Hit%. Use your correlation formula for tour 153 and calculate what the top 50 fighter ranks would have been without hit% as a factor. Then calculate it without K/D. The ranks will be very different. Then examine which list you think is reflecting the most effective pilots. Then my point will make itself clear. Or be discounted. 

[Vinkman]

Which is the beauty of it being hit PERCENT.  

It doesn't matter what type of ammo, what type of gun, or even whether you get kills or not.  Cannon vs MG matters not.  How much ammo it takes to get a kill matters not.  Hit% is simply hitting or missing what you're firing at.

It simply measures the ability of the individual pilot to hit what he/she is shooting at...  

Sure, it can be skewed short-term by limiting yourself to shooting bombers, etc...  But there really aren't that many easy ways to artificially improve it (to make your skill appear greater).  As such, it's the best (potential) indicator of individual skill (IMO).  

On the other hand, the metrics of K/D, and K/S can easily be skewed (with help from your friends, a squad, or a horde) to artificially improve them (to make your skill appear greater).  As such, these are not good indicators of individual skill (IMO).

K/T can even be improved by simply not RTBing...  Sure, it's detrimental to K/D, but doesn't do much if anything to K/S (heck might even help that), and the hit against K/D doesn't matter much beyond a certain point anyway.

When it comes to attempting to judge an individual's potential skill by looking at metrics, I don't see that it's valid to look at the metrics that don't rely as heavily on individual skill.

Flying with a wingman will help your K/D, and help your K/S.  It won't help your Hit%.  

Your wingman can help you stay alive, but he/she cannot help you hit what you're shooting at...

Hit% is also effected to a great extent by how skillful you are in setting up shots, judging speed, angle, lead, timing, etc...  And with wing-mounted guns, and the requirement that some guns demand more shots on target imposes additional challenge in maintaining a good shot solution over a longer time, or being able to repeatedly set up good shots, etc...  

These are all important skills for a fighter pilot to have, and skills that show up in Hit%, while not showing up as directly in K/D and K/S.  

All true mntman, but I'm saying Rank is NOT all about pilot skill. I'm saying it's about being best at what the game is about...killing more enemy planes than kill you (talking fighter rank here). If I was your general, I wouldn't be looking to pin medals on the guys that killed the most bandits, didn't get shot down, and killed them quickly.  I certainly would give the medal to a guy that did less of that, but landed 8% of hit rounds vs. 7%. Rounds landed is secondary indicator, not a primary indicator.

Again, I don't think folks with more kills, higher K/D, higher Kills/hour, higher kills/sortie, should lose out to a player that landed more bullets. Because what's the point of landing more bullets, if it didn't lead to killing more planes, and landing more often.

But I do think which plane you fly should be a big factor.

[SmokinLoon]

The ranking and scoring in AH is %100 arbitrary, it is what HTC sets it at and nothing more.  In all fairness, I wish there was a way for HTC to tie the ENY value of a plane to the rank and score of the player.  A guy that ups a P40x in LW and gets 5 kills with it has a far more daunting challenge that the guy who ups a P51x and does the same, yet the ranking and scoring reflects none of that.  The current system *encourages* the best of the best to be used to claw your way to the top, to a player that has thousands of perks points there is no need to earn any more perks so why even have the challenge of a 20-30 ENY aircraft?