Rank modification

[Hazard69]

The ranking and scoring in AH is %100 arbitrary, it is what HTC sets it at and nothing more.  In all fairness, I wish there was a way for HTC to tie the ENY value of a plane to the rank and score of the player.  A guy that ups a P40x in LW and gets 5 kills with it has a far more daunting challenge that the guy who ups a P51x and does the same, yet the ranking and scoring reflects none of that.  The current system *encourages* the best of the best to be used to claw your way to the top, to a player that has thousands of perks points there is no need to earn any more perks so why even have the challenge of a 20-30 ENY aircraft? 

Agree 100%. Score and rank are so far removed from gameplay that they are inconsequential. Doesn't matter if I start in a Spit16 LA7 Nikki or P51. So why would I hop into a P40 unless I really want that extra challenge?

I honestly do wonder why people even bother to 'artificially inflate' their scores? Just to see their name in light on a website?

Now, I do understand HTC's position as well. Limiting players to XYZ aircraft until you have 123 perkies, would severely cripple player interest in the game (just look at EW/MW arenas for proof). Also I believe the perk system exists simply to limit the number of certain truly uber planes that in unchecked numbers could adversely affect gameplay.

The only real solution (and it would be a very very tricky one at best) would be to make rank/score etc. a more relevant part of active gameplay, but they would have to do it, without limiting a player's choice of plane. I dunno what though, maybe stuff like XYZ skin is available for your aircraft once you have accumulated XYZ perks? 

I know....how about perking ordinance? "You don't have enough perks for that type of ordinance" every-time you select 1000lb+ bombs. Would Not limit player ability too much and increase the use of smaller sized bombs.

just my $0.02. 

[Lusche]

Lusche, to understand my point you need to examine rank without Hit%. Use your correlation formula for tour 153 and calculate what the top 50 fighter ranks would have been without hit% as a factor. Then calculate it without K/D. The ranks will be very different. Then examine which list you think is reflecting the most effective pilots. Then my point will make itself clear. Or be discounted.  

Here are the top 10 fighter ranks computed without hit %

I honestly do wonder why people even bother to 'artificially inflate' their scores? Just to see their name in light on a website?

I doubt that, because the vast majority of players will never see their name written there

[titanic3]

Gotta do that score hoard to join the cool kids club.

K/D is probably the only stat I might care about, because it shows whether or not I'm improving. Now obviously, flying nothing but 262s and Tempests and getting a 50K/D doesn't make you any better.

[Vinkman]

Here are the top 10 fighter ranks computed without hit %

(Image removed from quote.)



I doubt that, because the vast majority of players will never see their name written there

Thanks Snail. That's not a big difference, but lazy males a big move. Can you show top 50?

Oh nice job on your top rank :-)

[Vinkman]

K/D is probably the only stat I might care about, because it shows whether or not I'm improving. Now obviously, flying nothing but 262s and Tempests and getting a 50K/D doesn't make you any better.

That's the point on the proposed change. :-)

[Lusche]

Thanks Snail. That's not a big difference, but lazy males a big move. Can you show top 50?

The picture is too big. But I can tell you it's quite similar. Some individuals may do a big jump up and down, but nothing spectacular. There is no one with (old) fighter rank 100+ that would find himself in the 'top50' suddenly.


Addendum:

I did some further evaluations, and it seems to verify that what MtnMan said about hit% as an indicator. No other single sub-category is that closely matching overall rank as this one. Looking at the top 20 pilots of tour 153, the variations in K/D and the other sub-categories are much higher than within hit%.
Furthermore, by exploring the stat histories of random pilots it also seems that hit% is the most consistent factor individually. The other categories show much more variance there as well.

[SectorNine50]

I guess I'm confused, I thought ENY was factored into score as it is...  Don't people that fly higher ENY planes get more "points" for killing a lower ENY plane?

[Lusche]

I guess I'm confused, I thought ENY was factored into score as it is...  Don't people that fly higher ENY planes get more "points" for killing a lower ENY plane?

Perk Points: Yes.
Score Points: No.

[ToeTag]

Perk Points: Yes.
Score Points: No.

This is where flying a higher eny plane should be factored in....If I have the same K/D as "any player" but I fly 30 eny planes all the time and they fly 5 eny all the time I should get a better rank.

[ink]

   I like the idea of a player eny based off of "Rank" in cases such as I who only fly in one category that would be the "rank" used.......make it that it takes so many sorties for that rank to count towards player eny.


edit

player "eny" would only count towards the person who kills them in perks earned.....not in what they can fly from the hanger.

[kvuo75]

This is where flying a higher eny plane should be factored in....If I have the same K/D as "any player" but I fly 30 eny planes all the time and they fly 5 eny all the time I should get a better rank.

if perks earned was factored in rank it would work this way.. not only flying "worse" planes, but flying outnumbered would be a positive too..

[SectorNine50]

Perk Points: Yes.
Score Points: No.

Ah, I guess I never made the connection that the two were separate from each other.

[mtnman]

All true mntman, but I'm saying Rank is NOT all about pilot skill. I'm saying it's about being best at what the game is about...killing more enemy planes than kill you (talking fighter rank here). If I was your general, I wouldn't be looking to pin medals on the guys that killed the most bandits, didn't get shot down, and killed them quickly.  I certainly would give the medal to a guy that did less of that, but landed 8% of hit rounds vs. 7%. Rounds landed is secondary indicator, not a primary indicator.

What's the difference between "pilot skill" and "being best at"?  Does it not take skill to be "best"?

Tripling your hit % means taking 1/3 as much time to land enough damage to be lethal.  It takes a "3 shot solution fight" and turns it into a "1 shot solution" fight.  The loss of SA, energy, etc., difference between the guy who needs triple the firing time and the guy who can do it in one quick burst/attack is huge.  Tripling your Hit% keeps you alive longer, letting you score more kills, land more kills, and do it quicker than the guy who misses more.

As such, a high hit% will pull your K/D, K/S, and K/T up.  It's a basic ingredient in all three of those facets.

The reverse is not true.  Improving your K/D, K/S, or K/T (or all three) will not help you shoot better.

When it comes to shooting down more enemy than kill you, and doing it in less time, shooting is a key metric.

Shooting well is a measurable skill; and one that will allow you to be better than someone else.  Having a high K/D, K/S, and/or K/T are not skills, and won't make you better than the next guy (no matter how high they are).

I do not disagree with the idea that it would be nice to measure other skills than shooting, of course.  Currently though, it's the only skill being measured.

Again, I don't think folks with more kills, higher K/D, higher Kills/hour, higher kills/sortie, should lose out to a player that landed more bullets. Because what's the point of landing more bullets, if it didn't lead to killing more planes, and landing more often.

Landing more bullets does lead to killing more planes.  More importantly, it leads to killing other planes quicker.  Missing your shots does not lead to any of the things you want to see out of a fighter pilot.

If you see more kills, higher K/D, higher K/S, and higher K/T from a "poor shooter" vs. a "skilled shooter", how is that poor shooter getting his kills?  Augers?  Proxies?  Luck?  How do you shoot someone down by missing them???

The "more kills" part loses me too.  Simply massing up a bunch of kills may be just a result of gobs of time to play.  I'd rather have the guy that's twice as effective than the guy with twice the free time.

But I do think which plane you fly should be a big factor.

I agree 100% 

FWIW, if you looked at my K/D, K/S, and K/T averages over the last few years, you'd probably assume I'd be a valuable asset to a squad.  If you did, you'd be mistaken; I'm a horrible squad member.

[Tilt]

I think HTC rank system does seek to reward those who put in more hours of play..............

I dont think it is by accident.

It may mask the quality of the player, however  if I upped a C202 and shot down 8 Tempests in a few minutes on my one and only mission of the tour,  should I be ranked No.1 fighter without ever flying fighter again during that tour?

[Lusche]

It may mask the quality of the player, however  if I upped a C202 and shot down 8 Tempests in a few minutes on my one and only mission of the tour,  should I be ranked No.1 fighter without ever flying fighter again during that tour?

No, because it could be a freak occurrence. Maybe not with a tempest, but with other non-perk ENY 5 fighters like the La-7. You could have just encountered a noob. One single sortie should not make you top ace for that month.

Actually you can examine this effect in EW arena. The general activity there is so low, that one single, well 'planned' fighter sortie can easily give you the number one spot for the whole tour, because the number score points don't matter much.
If you would remove score points as a sub category, you would see this a lot in LW -players carefully looking for doing that one 'golden' fighter sortie and flying the rest in attack mode exclusively.
(And no, in contrast to the popular opinion, it currently doesn't happen that much at all.)

And on top of that, the chances for mischievous manipulation would be much higher.