Author Topic: Good gun kit maker?  (Read 729 times)

Offline Skyguns MKII

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Good gun kit maker?
« on: November 20, 2012, 01:37:22 PM »
So my friend showed me his Kentucky longrifle he got as a kit and how he personalized it himself and i was very interested  :x. I have shot firearms before however never assembled a reproduction kit. I looked online for one but there are many makers so my question being, Which maker should i go with?

Offline Triton28

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 05:08:36 PM »
Traditions is the only one that comes to mind, and I've seen a few very nicely finished examples. 

The way I've always looked at it though, these kit guns are more of a blank canvas and the end result will be less about what brand kit you buy and more of how much pride and craftsmanship you plan to put into it.

Good luck to you sir.   :salute

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Offline Widewing

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 07:00:29 PM »
The best source I know of, Track of the Wolf... Great kits, not cheap junk.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/category.aspx/588
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Offline homersipes

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 07:09:26 PM »
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_162_192
just found that one, my father built a Hawken muzzel loader a long time ago, beautiful but as stated before it kinda depends on what kind of craftsmanship you use on it.  I have over 100 hours in my rifle stock and its as smooth as a babys bottom and looks like a piece of glass. :aok

Offline mtnman

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 07:34:40 PM »
The best source I know of, Track of the Wolf... Great kits, not cheap junk.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/category.aspx/588


I'll second that!

I built this one-

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/623/1/KIT-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-LEFT-16-FLINT

and this one (but in flint; I don't shoot those newfangled percussion jobbies  :D) -

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/496/1/AAL-603

I built both in .54



These are really nice kits/guns, but I wouldn't consider them to be beginner-class when it comes to building.  They're not just sand-a-bit, stain, blue, and fire them type kits.  They require a fairly decent level of woodworking and metalworking skill to put them together.  The end result is worth it of course...  The components alone are worlds better than the mass-produced kits and finished firearms.

If you've never built a firearm though, you may want to start with something easier (but yes, they're definitely lower quality)- http://www.cabelas.com/traditional-rifles-shotguns-traditions-8482-kentucky-rifle-kit.shtml

Although they're lower quality, the inletting and major work is done.  You can basically do the final sanding, some personalization (if you want) stain, brown the metal, and finish.  You'll end up with a shoot-able piece without as much cost and with about 1/10 (maybe 1/20?) the time expenditure.  I hate to say it, but if you're new to muzzleloading I'd probably stick with a percussion ignition.  I actually think a good flint is far superior to percussion, but most "entry-level" flintlocks are junk.

Of course, if you're positive you're in muzzleloaders to stay and have the ability and tools to build one of the higher-grade guns, I'd go that route right off the bat.  No sense in spending money on the lower grade option if you're then going to want to step up to the higher grade.
MtnMan

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 08:02:02 PM »
have it checked by an expert before you fire it.  you never know.


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Offline mbailey

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 08:27:46 PM »
The best source I know of, Track of the Wolf... Great kits, not cheap junk.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/category.aspx/588


+1   I have a friend that made a New Hope Pennsylvania rifle from a kit he got from Track of the Wolf.....When he was done with it, it was more of a piece of art, than a rifle.......Shoots like a dream  :aok
Mbailey
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Offline Skyguns MKII

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 10:31:23 PM »
I'll second that!

I built this one-

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/623/1/KIT-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-LEFT-16-FLINT

and this one (but in flint; I don't shoot those newfangled percussion jobbies  :D) -

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/496/1/AAL-603

I built both in .54

(Image removed from quote.)

These are really nice kits/guns, but I wouldn't consider them to be beginner-class when it comes to building.  They're not just sand-a-bit, stain, blue, and fire them type kits.  They require a fairly decent level of woodworking and metalworking skill to put them together.  The end result is worth it of course...  The components alone are worlds better than the mass-produced kits and finished firearms.

If you've never built a firearm though, you may want to start with something easier (but yes, they're definitely lower quality)- http://www.cabelas.com/traditional-rifles-shotguns-traditions-8482-kentucky-rifle-kit.shtml

Although they're lower quality, the inletting and major work is done.  You can basically do the final sanding, some personalization (if you want) stain, brown the metal, and finish.  You'll end up with a shoot-able piece without as much cost and with about 1/10 (maybe 1/20?) the time expenditure.  I hate to say it, but if you're new to muzzleloading I'd probably stick with a percussion ignition.  I actually think a good flint is far superior to percussion, but most "entry-level" flintlocks are junk.

Of course, if you're positive you're in muzzleloaders to stay and have the ability and tools to build one of the higher-grade guns, I'd go that route right off the bat.  No sense in spending money on the lower grade option if you're then going to want to step up to the higher grade.

The websight seems like an excelent source however im having trouble finding a kentucky longrifle on it. Perhaps you can help me out? With that being said i must say those are beautiful.

Offline Maverick

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 09:59:02 AM »
Way back in the early 80's, a buddy and I decided to build a couple Hawken rifles. We did the TC .45 kits. Not really authentic repros since they had adjustable sights but I thought it would be a better shooter. We browned the metal and used boiled linseed oil on the stocks. It took a while but the results were worth it. That rifle turned into my hunting rifle for over a decade using conical bullets. I still have it but the barrel is shot out now. I suppose I ought to call up TC and see if it can be "freshened" to .50 cal. Keep in mind that the brass recoil pad is pretty useless in mitigating recoil from heavy charges of powder.  :eek:
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 12:23:49 PM »
The websight seems like an excelent source however im having trouble finding a kentucky longrifle on it. Perhaps you can help me out? With that being said i must say those are beautiful.

That's because "Kentucky longrifle" is too generic, and not really "correct".  "American Longrifle" is probably more correct.

Nowadays we  all think of "Kentucky longrifles" and "Hawken's" as being the mainstay firearms of their periods, but in reality they weren't. 

Historically, gunsmiths made individual guns one at a time, and there was a lot of variance both in tolerances/dimensions, and also in style and decoration.  Being individually handmade, expensive as all get-out, and made by artisans, they were commonly decorated more than "necessary".  Some were very ornate with brass and silver furniture, inlays, and carving; some wore iron furniture, little or no carving or inlays, and were more along the lines of a "poor-boy".

A good rifle might cost as much as 1/3 of the average workers annual salary!

The rifles referred to as "Kentucky longrifles" were a style of firearm "invented" by German and Swiss craftsmen in 1730's or 1740's Lancaster county, Pennsylvania.  They were originally all flintlocks, but a few percussion ignitions were made beginning in the mid to late 1830's.  They were of lighter caliber than the most common firearms of that period (smooth bores in the predominately .60-.75 range) and were generally .45 caliber and down (to .32 or .36).  There was no need for larger in that area of the US, and lead and powder were very costly.  There were also no real "standards" when it came to caliber.  A gunsmith made a rifle, and made a mold to make balls for that rifle.  You wouldn't be able to just get a ".45".  It might be a .43, .44, .45, .46, etc...

Of course, the rifles originally made in Lancaster were effective and beautiful, and didn't take too long to become popular.  Soon various gunsmiths throughout Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Kentucky, and all across the eastern US were making rifles very similar, but with each artisan's own modifications, differences, or preferences.  The military even began making their own similar rifles eventually.  Many times various sub-types were known to come from certain locales or even specific counties.

All of these rifles eventually became lumped together and referred to as "Kentucky longrifles". 

Most (if not all) mass-produced modern "Kentucky longrifles" are horridly inaccurate historically.  They don't mimic any one rifle, and share many facets that likely would never have been found all on one rifle.  They're seldon "finished" either.  The stocks are clunky, squared off, and left where modern machinery could carve them, never having known the human touch.  An easy example of this is the forestock shape, which looks ok from the side if you squint, but has nowhere near the cross-section of a historical piece.  You can fix that of course, because the problem is too much wood being left in place.  Carve it down to where it should be, and refinish it, and you'll be at least a small step closer to realistic.

Or, better yet, build one from components (not exactly a "kit" that most people would expect, but they ARE referred to as "kits" sometimes").  Most "kits" on the market are just the modern mass-produced historically-inaccurate versions, which justhaven't been sanded, finished and browned yet.

Nowadays, when people care enough to want to build/own historically-accurate muzzleloaders the only real way to do that is to pick an individual artisan, locale, or museum piece and set to work reproducing it.  That's why when you look through the TOTW website you see "Pennsylvania's, Lehigh Valley's, and various county names followed by "longrifle".

When I built my Hawken's, I built it from components and a blueprint copied from a museum piece.  The components included a stock that could be carved to be correct, a barrel blank that could be made to be correct, a trigger that could be made to be correct, etc...

In reality, they're ALL (or at least most) of the longrifles on the TOTW site are "Kentucky longrifles", even though none of them are...  Make sense?
MtnMan

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Offline mbailey

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 12:32:50 PM »
Great write up Mtnman......I live in the Lehigh Valley in PA, and very close to Lancaster and Bucks countys (Bucks was a very predominant area for long rifle production (hence the New Hope rifle from New Hope Bucks county). The firearms history around here is wonderful....we still have many early furnaces in the area that were involved in the production of firearms, shot and shell. They have been preserved as historical landmarks, and are open for tours........really neat stuff. 
Mbailey
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Good gun kit maker?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 05:23:20 PM »
Thanks Mbailey!

I've never been to your neck of the woods but it sure sounds neat.  I might have to see if I can get down there some day.  I'd love to take in some of the history.
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson