Author Topic: geothermal heat  (Read 811 times)

Offline homersipes

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geothermal heat
« on: November 21, 2012, 06:21:59 PM »
so I got a new job working for a water well company, I didnt realize all the stuff they do there.  We have been working on installing a geothermal heating unit for the last couple days, pretty friggin cool systems.  It has a compressor that draws heat from the water in the winter and draws the cool off the water in the summer for ac.
http://www.bosch-climate.us/products-bosch-thermotechnology/geothermal-heat-pumps/geothermal-residential-product-offering/geo-6000-wa-ww/ta-series.html
this is the unit we have been putting in, quite pricey to buy but seems worth it as the only thing it uses is electricity

Offline Shuffler

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 07:35:42 PM »
I have a neighbor that built one himself some 15 years ago and it works very well.
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Offline pembquist

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 09:33:40 PM »
Do you do that from one borehole? I'm assuming you circulate the well water up and through a heat exchanger then back down again. I've seen the system where you bury a whole lot of black pipe with basically water in i,t seems like drilling a well would be a lot more compact and less disruptive.  How deep do you have to drill and does it have to be a separate well from drinking water.  Sorry for all the questions but I did a radiant floor system with a condensing heater and I've developed a curiosity about HVAC ever since.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 10:10:35 PM »
There is a downside to geothermal heat.

Offline ACE

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 11:06:18 PM »
I am going to school to learn HVAC as we speak.  Vulcan is correct, it is very costly to install.  If something breaks or there is a leak overtime it will be very expensive to fix aswell.  They will have to re dig it back up. 
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 05:18:53 AM »
Those don't work where I live.  They work great in the summer but I'm too far north for heat pumps to work in the winter.

They were the big fad here about 10 years ago when I was still doing HVAC controls.  Lots of schools bought them with tax credits but ended up regretting it.

Farther south they make perfect sense.  Especially with supplemental heating.
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Offline homersipes

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2012, 06:26:41 AM »
Quote
Do you do that from one borehole? I'm assuming you circulate the well water up and through a heat exchanger then back down again. I've seen the system where you bury a whole lot of black pipe with basically water in i,t seems like drilling a well would be a lot more compact and less disruptive.  How deep do you have to drill and does it have to be a separate well from drinking water.  Sorry for all the questions but I did a radiant floor system with a condensing heater and I've developed a curiosity about HVAC ever since.
 
 
yeah we drill a well first.  both of the units I haved worked on the well was 600' deep, and you are correct sir it pumps it from the well to the unit circulates and sends it back to the well.  yes it has to be a separate well from drinking water as far as I know.
Quote
Those don't work where I live.  They work great in the summer but I'm too far north for heat pumps to work in the winter.

wow my company has put in a few and the clients love them and I am in vermont. I imagine it takes a lot of electricity to run though as you HAVE to have a 200 amp service and it takes 2 double pole 50 amp breakers, 1 for the pump in the well and 1 for the unit, but heating oil is like $3.60 here and electricity is cheaper.  

Offline Rob52240

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2012, 06:58:23 AM »
It's expensive here because when a heat pump is heating, it's basically the same thing as turning a window shaker around backwards and then running it.  Although the ground loop lets you cheat your starting point to about 55 degrees.

Also, when you put 100 heat pumps in a school or hospital, the customer will need to replace compressors more frequently than they want to.  With conventional air handlers and VAV units. there is a lot less to go wrong.  With regular air handlers you also get a lot more control.  You can modulate a burner but you can't modulate a compressor beyond stage 1 / stage 2 unless it's a centrifugal unit which you'll never see scaled smaller than huge.

Natural gas is dirt cheap right now too and is predicted to continue to be dirt cheap.  The coal industry is hurting because natural gas prices have dropped by more than half in the past few years.

Radiant heat is the way to go in my opinion if you live anywhere that actually gets cold in the winter.
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Offline homersipes

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 07:07:19 AM »
Quote
Radiant heat is the way to go in my opinion if you live anywhere that actually gets cold in the winter.
Posted on: Today at 06:26:41 AMPosted by: homersipes 
agreed 100% I hate hot air systems they tend to heat unevenly, I have a 1 pipe steam system in my house, wish it was a 2 pipe because I would switch it over to forced hot water.  It heats awesome, but lose alot where it converts water to steam is the reason I would switch to hot water.  would like radiant floor but too expensive to set up beings my house is finished 2 storys.  Bosch does make a water to water system that is the same geothermal setup but isnt an air unit.  I dont think I could justify the cost though, its something like 16k just for the furnace plus the well, pump, controls, etc.  The place we have been working at has 2 units 1 upstairs and 1 downstairs, we were talking to a plumber yesterday and he said the owner told him he had almost 75k in just the heating system :O :O, thats insane

Online icepac

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 07:48:55 AM »
Bringing heat from inside the earth and releasing it above ground contributes to global warming.

Offline ACE

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2012, 08:17:01 AM »
Bringing heat from inside the earth and releasing it above ground contributes to global warming.

It is not what you think..  Correct me if im wrong but you Condensers lines are just using the heat from underground to help gain heat.  Its not like your actually bringing the heat to the earth. It will still stay below ground. 
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2012, 09:31:44 AM »
Bringing heat from inside the earth and releasing it above ground contributes to global warming.

Heat pumps pull heat out of the ground in the winter and put heat into the ground during summertime.

They work on the principal that the temperature below ground is about 55 degrees year round.  So you bring your discharge air temp down to 60 degrees for almost free in the summer and bring it up to about 60 degrees for nearly free during the winter months although you're still using a compressor to make the rest of your heat.
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Offline homersipes

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2012, 09:51:12 AM »
Quote
Heat pumps pull heat out of the ground in the winter and put heat into the ground during summertime.

They work on the principal that the temperature below ground is about 55 degrees year round.  So you bring your discharge air temp down to 60 degrees for almost free in the summer and bring it up to about 60 degrees for nearly free during the winter months although you're still using a compressor to make the rest of your heat.
that is correct sir

Offline smoe

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2012, 09:56:02 AM »
Bringing heat from inside the earth and releasing it above ground contributes to global warming.

uummmm no, the idea of geothermal heat is it saves energy.

And kind of evens out the heat transfer:
Heat pumps pull heat out of the ground in the winter and put heat into the ground during summertime.

crap, was I just trolled? :furious :rofl

Offline Rob52240

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Re: geothermal heat
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2012, 09:57:51 AM »
Pulling heat out of the ground and putting it into the air does not contribute to global warming since there is no net temperature gain.
If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.