Gun Accidents.....how safe are you? really?

[colmbo]

IIRC, the NYPD switched to the Glock 19 in 1996 and since then accuracy has plummeted.       

On my department the shooting scores increased about 10-12% when we switched from revolvers to the Glock 21.  The biggest increase was with the poor shooters, those of us that could shoot the revolver didn't see as much of an increase in accuracy.  I'm not so sure that the accuracy is down as much as the higher capacity of the weapons has contributed to being able to shoot more rounds.

[coombz]

Americans seem to be happy having high school dropouts in their police force, so it isn't much of a stretch from there to letting any old halfwit own a gun

[Tank-Ace]

Tank-Ace, I believe the man in question shot himself in the hand not the face. I hope you do not take this as disrespectful, but I have several times in this thread tried to make my point which very specifically pertains to design, as Mr. Coombz says. If you are unwilling to make the effort to carefully read and comprehend what I am saying but instead type knee-jerk responses to a stimulus you think you are receiving then I fail to see how trying to discuss this further with you would be productive.

Sorry about that, was about half asleep when posting. I've only got around 13 hours of sleep total for the past three days.

[Condor11]

Americans seem to be happy having high school dropouts in their police force, so it isn't much of a stretch from there to letting any old halfwit own a gun

Your either joking or ignorant.

SDPD average new higher is 28, with a bachelors degree, and military expreience (usually a combat tour)

[Major Biggles]

Oh boy. There is the end of the technical discussion.

Didn't mean it to be, apologies. Like I say, I love guns and I think it's great that America protects the right to bear arms. Stories like some posted on the first page make me shudder though...

[Triton28]

Your either joking or ignorant.

SDPD average new higher is 28, with a bachelors degree, and military expreience (usually a combat tour)

He's trolling.  It's a pastime of his.

[coombz]

hehe

I like how joining the military is somehow an indication of intelligence, rather than the complete opposite

bravery, patriotism, selflessness...sure

intelligence? not so much

[Condor11]

hehe

I like how joining the military is somehow an indication of intelligence, rather than the complete opposite

bravery, patriotism, selflessness...sure

intelligence? not so much

Ok so it was option b with you then. Too bad. 
I could literally give you dozens  of reasons why its intellegent but im sure someone like u will still be so afraid of the risks and hardship that will be all you focus on.
Either your a disallusioned vet in which case, may u find peace
Or your just ignorant.

[coombz]

I imagine the irony of repeatedly calling me ignorant while posting with Tank Ace levels of broken English is lost on you, but I have to say I appreciate it

Easy to see why you made the career choices you did, and I thank you for supporting and bearing out my comments

[Major Biggles]

hehe

I like how joining the military is somehow an indication of intelligence, rather than the complete opposite

bravery, patriotism, selflessness...sure

intelligence? not so much

I disagree.

[Condor11]

I imagine the irony of repeatedly calling me ignorant while posting with Tank Ace levels of broken English is lost on you, but I have to say I appreciate it

Easy to see why you made the career choices you did, and I thank you for supporting and bearing out my comments

Ahhhh i get your sig now.
Really a pity. I like a good debate with someone who can intellegently represent themselves

[GScholz]

Crystal thanks, Glocks are not a favorite for SOF or US conventional forces for a reason and this is one of them.

STEP 4 above was not intended to be the fail safe to ensure its a clear and safe weapon, its to take the weapon down and out of the firing postion AFTER you verified clear and safe by inspecting it visually and physically, it was NOT to be meant as a means of ensuring its clear and safe.

Your statement I quoted initially was "As long as there is a chance that there is a live round in the chamber no gun is safe, period. The only way to make sure is to pull the trigger in a safe direction and see what happens." The comment in italics is what I have heartburn with and its completely wrong no matter what gun you use.  

Like I said YMMV on your side of the pond, but that is how it's done here, with all guns. Just so you know where I'm coming from, after my obligatory year as a conscript rifleman I served two years as a grenadier (a professional soldier rank you guys might call "specialist" or something similar), assistant instructor on the MG-3 and M2HB machine guns. During those two years the Glock 17 was my service weapon. After that I served one year in the Norwegian UN contingent in Bosnia in '95 as a rifleman and squad leader with my trusty old AG-3 (HK G-3). After than I left the army to study.

You have your way it seems, and we have ours.

[Maverick]

Americans seem to be happy having high school dropouts in their police force, so it isn't much of a stretch from there to letting any old halfwit own a gun

You've just made a sweeping statement that simply is incorrect. My actual experience in the profession and living in the country says otherwise. Now if you have something of substance to add to the discussion, post away otherwise trolling like that simply confirms that you have zero credibility and it's better to simply ignore you entirely.


Schultz it is entirely satisfactory to check the loaded status of the firearm by opening the action. Simply pulling the trigger for that purpose is unnecessary and far more hazardous.

[SmokinLoon]

Americans seem to be happy having high school dropouts in their police force, so it isn't much of a stretch from there to letting any old halfwit own a gun

Your ignorance must be bliss to you.  Most LEO's in the US need to have 60 college credits (2 years) to be able to be on the force.  Not sure of the NYPD, but out here on the prairie of the mid-west that is the norm (but not absolute)  

As for the accuracy in a Glock vs a revolver, I can understand why some would shoot the auto loader better because of the short trigger pull once the gun is set in single action or in terms of a striker fired gun like the Glock.  The longer double action pull of a revolver can certainly throw the weak handed person in to a wild grouping of shots.  However, if the revolver is able to be cocked to single action than my bet is on the revolver because nothing breaks as clean and light as a S&W revolver save for maybe a Colt revolver.      I was lucky enough to be able to transition between the two without an issue for qualification and training purposes, my only problem was with my gorilla sized hands being a bit awkward while performing a speed load with the revolver.  More than once I dropped by speed loader and had to forfeit 6 rounds during the time trials.        

[GScholz]

I see the trolls are coming out of the woodwork.

On the point of safety and gun ownership my country does thing a bit differently than the U.S. (no surprise there )  I understand that firearms have a special place in American history and how your country was built back in the day. For better or worse guns are ingrained in your culture. America is somewhat unique in that respect.

However, many other countries also have a rich gun culture, mine included. Norway is the country that has the second most armed households per capita in the world; second only to Switzerland (due to their unique national guard system). The U.S. does have more guns in civilian ownership per capita though. Over here the number of guns a person can own is regulated by law.

Everyone can own a firearm here, as long as the person doesn't have a criminal record, and as long as the person's need for a weapon is real. By that I mean that the person is an active hunter or member of a gun club. If you just want something to hang on your wall or play with you can get a deactivated or blank-firing gun. The number of guns you can own is regulated by how active you are in your gun activities, especially for handguns. There are official requirements to how many competition events you have to participate in every year to keep your gun license.

There are of course obligatory safety courses and exams you must pass to get a license for any gun. To get a license for a shotgun or hunting rifle you need, in addition to safety courses, to pass a hunters course with exam. This course/exam must be repeated every year before hunting season. This exam is not easy and includes shooting at range against moving targets from a standing position.

If you ever meet a licensed big game hunter from Norway, he or she is a very able rifleman, and above all a very safe shooter. We have very few accidents involving firearms here, to the point that it's national news if someone gets hurt.

Typical hunters exam (target view):

http://videos.videopress.com/ccgzpoGb/mvi_0065_hd.mp4


Typical hunters exam (shooter view):

http://videos.videopress.com/HorvuCMO/mvi_0063_hd.mp4


That guy would not have passed on that try.


There are parts of our gun laws that I find unnecessarily restrictive, but I do agree that we need to screen out those that just can't use firearms safely. After all we don't allow people who can't pass a drivers exam to operate motor vehicles.

I know this is heretical to many Americans because of the special place firearms have in your culture, so I hope you'll forgive my blasphemy.