Audiophiles I need some guidance .

[MrRiplEy[H]]

   I agree wholeheartedly with you Ripley,I know the owner of a highend audio store and he'd gladdly outfit your listening room with a couple hundred grand worth of equipment!

       However it come to a point were if you want to hear a difference you must spend 10's of thousands of dollars to actually "hear" a difference. Kind of like cars,a 40 grand Z car is pretty good but you'd need a GTS Porche to notice a real difference.

    Now some will argue about the cars and the sound systems claiming they can notice a difference but thats human nature!

   BTW,never was a fan of the magnaplaners,had a set for a week or two and traded them for a set of EV home speakers. I'd rather listen to a set of antique Crowns over and electrostatics and the best subs!    Just my nature!.....   I like old tube amps for the "feel" something about that background hum that makes music seem real.


   

I've never been a fan of magneplanars either. While they provide excellent imaging they lack the openness and clarity of a good ESL. I can't stand passive ESL setups either, an ESL must be actively filtered in order to achieve a proper end result. They need a notch filter or they will sound overbright.

The problem with planar speakers is that most people do not position them properly. They need in excess of 50cm of space to the back wall and hairpin positioning.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I have had fine wine, it tastes like crap.   spending more than what your computer is worth getting a sound system is a waste of money.  there has been many threads about this same issue.  you love to only concentrate on one word "audiophiles" and really love to point out the use of words.  but in reality somebody as smart and knowledgeable as you should automatically know what he means.

trying to embarrassed somebody because he  uses a word and  chooses to spend 120 bucks on a set of speakers is stupid.  it  makes you look snobbish.  then again this is not the first time that this has been pointed out to you.

I can assure you fine wine does not taste like crap. Maybe the bottle you tried was tainted?

Audiophiles ARE snobs when it comes to audio, this is what you have to understand I would not probably spend much more than 120 bucks on computer speakers either, but I'd never venture off saying they would produce anywhere near a good sound. In fact I know a 120 dollar setup will sound so horrible that I choose to wear headphones when gaming. Much better bang for buck and takes less space.

[morfiend]

I've never been a fan of magneplanars either. While they provide excellent imaging they lack the openness and clarity of a good ESL. I can't stand passive ESL setups either, an ESL must be actively filtered in order to achieve a proper end result. They need a notch filter or they will sound overbright.

The problem with planar speakers is that most people do not position them properly. They need in excess of 50cm of space to the back wall and hairpin positioning.

  Not familar with a notch filter but I understand how to setup the planars,I was lucky enough to have a room that suited them. Subs were rather difficult to find back then and I felt the planars really lacked any bottom end.
 I went and traded them in on a more expensive set of EV's,the interface series that came with a frequency slope equalizer as part of the package. IIRC the could output 108db with 10db instantanious peaks! Well that what they could do with the techniques amp I had at the time.

     

 PS: had a buddy with a Tangent amp that would rock those EV's....

[Stellaris]

Imagine you have a graphic equalizer.  Set all the little frequency sliders to the middle.  That's a flat frequency response curve.  Now slide one of the sliders to the bottom.  Now you've put a notch in the response curve, so you've got a notch filter on the go.

Basically you'd use a notch filter if you've got a problem with a particular frequency - room resonance, speaker nodes, a 60hz harmonic, or maybe you just don't like A#.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

  Not familar with a notch filter but I understand how to setup the planars,I was lucky enough to have a room that suited them. Subs were rather difficult to find back then and I felt the planars really lacked any bottom end.
 I went and traded them in on a more expensive set of EV's,the interface series that came with a frequency slope equalizer as part of the package. IIRC the could output 108db with 10db instantanious peaks! Well that what they could do with the techniques amp I had at the time.

     

 PS: had a buddy with a Tangent amp that would rock those EV's....

Actually planars (when they're large enough, around 2mx0,5m like mine) produce good amount of bass and what comes out is very clean. You really hear the detail in the bass. The only thing that lacks is the heavyest punch that slams the body. For that I have my garden PA with 2,5KW amp and a 18" horn loaded bass I can literally make my tools drop from the shed walls just by turning up the bass.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Imagine you have a graphic equalizer.  Set all the little frequency sliders to the middle.  That's a flat frequency response curve.  Now slide one of the sliders to the bottom.  Now you've put a notch in the response curve, so you've got a notch filter on the go.

Basically you'd use a notch filter if you've got a problem with a particular frequency - room resonance, speaker nodes, a 60hz harmonic, or maybe you just don't like A#.

I actually confused the notch filter and shelving equalizer which both are usually required for ESLs. The notch filter is used to dampen the large resonance peak of the membrane and a shelving equalizer is used to flatten out the high end. Due to dipole cancellation the ESLs frequency response is rising towards high frequencies. But because ESLs are highly directive and most sound arriving to the listening post is direct sound, it doesn't get mixed up to room reflections like a regular speaker. Therefore the sound will be overbright unless the natural response is shaped more like the power response (overall radiated sound in the room) of a conventional speaker. A shelving equalizer will do that - the tricky thing though is that this is usually only found in the high-end active amplified models. Meaning 4-5 zeros in the price tag.

If you've heard an ESL from starter level, it's been passively filtered. It may sound excellent, but it can't hold a candle to an actively filtered one.

[morfiend]

I actually confused the notch filter and shelving equalizer which both are usually required for ESLs. The notch filter is used to dampen the large resonance peak of the membrane and a shelving equalizer is used to flatten out the high end. Due to dipole cancellation the ESLs frequency response is rising towards high frequencies. But because ESLs are highly directive and most sound arriving to the listening post is direct sound, it doesn't get mixed up to room reflections like a regular speaker. Therefore the sound will be overbright unless the natural response is shaped more like the power response (overall radiated sound in the room) of a conventional speaker. A shelving equalizer will do that - the tricky thing though is that this is usually only found in the high-end active amplified models. Meaning 4-5 zeros in the price tag.

If you've heard an ESL from starter level, it's been passively filtered. It may sound excellent, but it can't hold a candle to an actively filtered one.

  Interesting, the EV's I had came with a frequency slope equalizer and it was 10k hz,IIRC,it had 3 setting -3db -6db and -9db,this was to help with as you say overly bright sound.

  What ESL panels do you have?    I've heard a couple of highend units before,as I said I know a guy that only sells "audiophille" equipment. I helped him with a couple of rooms,supplied the cabinets to "build in" a few different theater rooms.

   Now this was going back about 20 years so many things have changed but I pop in once in awhile to try and keep up....    Jus need to leave the wallet at home when I do!


   

[MrRiplEy[H]]

  Interesting, the EV's I had came with a frequency slope equalizer and it was 10k hz,IIRC,it had 3 setting -3db -6db and -9db,this was to help with as you say overly bright sound.

  What ESL panels do you have?    I've heard a couple of highend units before,as I said I know a guy that only sells "audiophille" equipment. I helped him with a couple of rooms,supplied the cabinets to "build in" a few different theater rooms.

   Now this was going back about 20 years so many things have changed but I pop in once in awhile to try and keep up....    Jus need to leave the wallet at home when I do!


   

I sold my ESLs away when my first kid was born. I couldn't risk him tripping the tall speaker or getting zapped from the 7-8 kV audio voltages while playing them. Now I have a much bigger property, kids are older and a DIY project in my garage that's been sitting waiting to be done for 5 years. I'm currently so busy with my business that I don't have time for hobbies anymore. But some day I'm going to finish the panels and I'm going to build a dedicated audio room to the external building in front of my house. I bought part of the leftover stock from an ESL manufacturer that went bankrupt so it's going to be pretty much straightforward assembly. I've done and sold several DIY ESLs before so it's nothing new to me.

[Masherbrum]

I have a pair of these and a Q9c driven by a Yamaha Receiver.   



They are the perfect size speaker for my room and damn are they "warm".   

[morfiend]

I sold my ESLs away when my first kid was born. I couldn't risk him tripping the tall speaker or getting zapped from the 7-8 kV audio voltages while playing them. Now I have a much bigger property, kids are older and a DIY project in my garage that's been sitting waiting to be done for 5 years. I'm currently so busy with my business that I don't have time for hobbies anymore. But some day I'm going to finish the panels and I'm going to build a dedicated audio room to the external building in front of my house. I bought part of the leftover stock from an ESL manufacturer that went bankrupt so it's going to be pretty much straightforward assembly. I've done and sold several DIY ESLs before so it's nothing new to me.

  Ripley,    I hear you there about the kids,once my son was born I got rid of most my equipment. I too was worried but about his hearing and little fingers make short work of busting drivers.

   Having replaced 1 of the mids in the EV's under warranty I wasnt about to do that without warranty....blasted driver had $175 price tag!


     Jay what make are they? I'm looking to find something to match up with my Castles to bodge together a 5.1 for the mancave.


   

[Masherbrum]

  Ripley,    I hear you there about the kids,once my son was born I got rid of most my equipment. I too was worried but about his hearing and little fingers make short work of busting drivers.

   Having replaced 1 of the mids in the EV's under warranty I wasnt about to do that without warranty....blasted driver had $175 price tag!


     Jay what make are they? I'm looking to find something to match up with my Castles to bodge together a 5.1 for the mancave.


   

KEF.   The line has been updated to these:   http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/index.html

You owe yourself an audition to these.    Simply amazing.   

I've had the cops called on me in the past

[morfiend]

KEF.   The line has been updated to these:   http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/index.html

You owe yourself an audition to these.    Simply amazing.   

I've had the cops called on me in the past

   Thx Mash,

   I havent heard the latest offerings from KEF but I knew a couple of guys who had them. Infact the guy with the tangent amps had the reference series,cant remember the model number.

   Been eyeing some Energy and Klipsch,the Energy speakers come close to matching my Castles but the Klipsch arent even close. BTW Castle speakers were made by the Worfdale group,later to be bought out and turn into some Japanese brand.

   I will go and give the KEF's a listen!



   

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Just out of curiosity, you're not confusing Electro Voice brand with electrostatic speakers?

EV speakers:



Electrostatic speakers:

[Masherbrum]

Those look like ESL Customs.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The ones I build are pretty much the same except I don't do the curved membrane. I prefer the flat surface - curve is a compromise between wider radiation and accuracy.