Author Topic: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor  (Read 1179 times)

Offline Torquila

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 06:53:06 PM »
I have a soft spot for this kind of thing, especially in the WW1 arena but I think the moment you try to re-enact honourable stuff in a game is when you lose sight of reality a little.

Offline ink

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 06:54:03 PM »
Yes, this real-life story about an amazing act of humanity compared to which anything that goes on in this game is insignificant.  However, since this is a forum about Aces High game-play, I think the point about honor shouldn't be disregarded just because it pales by comparison to this story.  Actually, I think it makes a valid point on how ridiculous some of the behavior and animosity that exists, and is largely tolerated, here really is.

Too frequently we lose sight of the fact that we are not really enemies, but members of the same gaming community competing on the same field.  Too often the gamer’s desire to get the “name in lights” overwhelms the self-respect of knowing how you got it.  I, as a rather competitive person, fall victim to this all the time.  But I can speak from experience that the self-respect maintained by disengaging and saluting someone like Latrobe so he can ditch his oiled 109F4 after putting up an amazing 3:1 fight lasts much longer than the feeling of landing 10 kills from vulching a deacked field.

When I find myself succumbing to the emotions of the game, I try to remember the lesson I learned as a young athlete long ago: that in the end you should be able to look your opponent in the eye and shake their hand in mutual respect, whether in victory or defeat.

Saluting the foe who just shot you down or disengaging and telling the stricken opponent to “go land it” are certainly honorable acts that are worthy of discussing in the context of this game.


well said :aok

Offline titanic3

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 06:56:25 PM »
Nothing like trying to let a guy live and trying to fly formation with him only to have him try to ram you.  :rolleyes: Sorry, but you're going to be eating bullets regardless of how badly messed up your plane is. Learned that lesson, not once, but twice.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 07:03:21 PM »

This is a game, if your icon is red, I'm shooting your arse down.


Exactly.  I find it kind of humorous that some people actually expect to be left alone after you've damaged their plane.  The other day in the MW arena, I shot off another P-38J's elevator and damaged one engine.  When the P-38J driver broke to RTB his damaged plane, it gave me the perfect angle to finish him off.  He then spent about 10 minutes calling me an stunninghunk and how I had no honor because I wouldn't let him RTB his damaged plane.

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Offline 1Cane

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 08:14:08 PM »
It was the Germans duty to shoot the B17 down.  The Americans flew home landed replaned and we're back  on the next mission to kill Germans.  If the Americans had wanted to surrender they could have lowered their landing gear and put out their flaps, this was considered a universal sign of surrender.  Is a very touching story but I've always felt that the German pilot should've been shot.  How many of his comrades and countryman died because of his actions?
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Offline BFOOT1

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 12:43:33 AM »
It was the Germans duty to shoot the B17 down.  The Americans flew home landed replaned and we're back  on the next mission to kill Germans.  If the Americans had wanted to surrender they could have lowered their landing gear and put out their flaps, this was considered a universal sign of surrender.  Is a very touching story but I've always felt that the German pilot should've been shot.  How many of his comrades and countryman died because of his actions?
Cane what would you do if you were in his shoes? He could tell that this plane stood no chance of putting up a fight. There are cases of this that happened all throughout the war. I feel the pilot did the right thing as thought how he would feel if he were in the American Crews shoes  :salute
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Offline doright

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 12:57:51 AM »
It was the Germans duty to shoot the B17 down.  The Americans flew home landed replaned and we're back  on the next mission to kill Germans.  If the Americans had wanted to surrender they could have lowered their landing gear and put out their flaps, this was considered a universal sign of surrender.  Is a very touching story but I've always felt that the German pilot should've been shot.  How many of his comrades and countryman died because of his actions?

This was pretty much my reaction to the story. But after thinking about it awhile I realized what made this slightly different was that the German pilot could tell the majority of the crew was wounded. Part of the point of the Geneva conventions is that incapacitating the enemy's ability to fight is preferred to outright killing, and therefore helping preserve the combatants humanity.

Perhaps a pilot that wasn't mentally struggling with the political implications of his actions, and the threat of 50cal machine guns that could open up on him, would realize that the proper action was to clearly offer surrender. A hostile act at that point by the bomber crew would absolve him of any wrong in finishing off the bomber. The bomber crew surrendering when offered, would have made for almost as engaging story because of the bravery and humanity shown, but without the questioning the consequences of the German pilot allowing them to return to their airbase.

In AH I've never seen a badly mauled red guy surrender, land at the enemy field and become a POW. Nope they are bailing, ditching, or RTBing so they can up again to engage in another fight. So I might as well get the kill and perkies. One time, though, I really wished I had been left to try to RTB in a lone remaining B17 with no ammo, no rudder, no ailerons, one elevator, and one inboard engine out. Would have been fun to see if I could've landed it.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 01:13:00 AM by doright »
Armaments 3:9 "Fireth thee not in their forward quarters lest thee be beset by 200 imps and be naughty in their sight."

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 09:28:27 AM »
Exactly.  I find it kind of humorous that some people actually expect to be left alone after you've damaged their plane.  The other day in the MW arena, I shot off another P-38J's elevator and damaged one engine.  When the P-38J driver broke to RTB his damaged plane, it gave me the perfect angle to finish him off.  He then spent about 10 minutes calling me an stunninghunk and how I had no honor because I wouldn't let him RTB his damaged plane.

Years ago in Air Warrior, I recall mixing it up with a Zeke.  That ended up in my smoking him, and he turned to RTB.  We waved our wings at each other and I headed off on my merry way, feeling great about the sportsmanship I'd just exhibited by allowing him to live.

Then he shot me down.

Fool me once...

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 09:42:17 AM »
Great story!
 :salute

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Offline Zoney

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2012, 10:44:46 AM »
Someone posted this same story about 6 months ago.

The next time I encountered a trio of buffs, I killed 2, saluted the player, told him I was breaking off, wished him luck and left him alone.

I probably did that about half the time after that, maybe more.  Only when I was alone against the buffs, never with a wingy.

I did it because it made me feel good.
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2012, 11:29:51 AM »
Someone posted this same story about 6 months ago.

The next time I encountered a trio of buffs, I killed 2, saluted the player, told him I was breaking off, wished him luck and left him alone.

I probably did that about half the time after that, maybe more.  Only when I was alone against the buffs, never with a wingy.

I did it because it made me feel good.

I did this with Shawk just last night. Killed two of his B-17s then took off, though only because he pinged me up pretty good. I think I will start doing this as a rule of thumb, unless they are trying to take a base or kill the CV, in the act. I did leave a poor little SBD alone yesterday. He was at 15k and I knew it must have taken him half an hour to get thre, so I let him make his bomb run then someone else killed him.

Boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
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Offline 1Cane

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 11:56:33 AM »
Cane what would you do if you were in his shoes? He could tell that this plane stood no chance of putting up a fight. There are cases of this that happened all throughout the war. I feel the pilot did the right thing as thought how he would feel if he were in the American Crews shoes  :salute
-BFOOT1
I would shoot the plane down!  Allowing the aircraft to return to base,means they will return to kill your countrymen.I have served my country during a time of war and there is no doubt in my mind what I would  have done!
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Offline Sg11

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2012, 12:04:01 PM »
If people could be more like Stigler the world would be a much better place. - A fantastic story!

Offline Slade

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 12:11:18 PM »
Thanks for posting.  Great story.  :salute
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Offline Wiley

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Re: A True Story That Is Relevant To Our MA Today: Honor
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2012, 10:03:54 AM »
I love this story, but have to agree applying it to an online game is a bit of a stretch.

As to Stigler allowing them to go, it's an awesome act of humanity.  Logically, I'm of the mindset allowing your enemy to live means he'll come back one day, and that's not a good thing.

I saw a silly quote the other day that rang quite true with me.  "Do no harm.  Unless you mean to do harm.  Then do a LOT of harm."  Violence should not be used in half measures.  Just MHO.

Still, an amazing story.

Wiley.
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