Is there a way out of this?

[Randy1]

 Here is the situation.  I am in a P47M and I have let myself get caught on the deck by a Spit or the like and it is on my six.  No help in the area.  I am at say 250MPH and the spit is 800 yards back and was at equal in E in the beginning but is starting to close quickly.  I have WEP left but it is not engaged.

Is there a way out of this situation?

I know the best answer is don't get caught in a situation like this but sometimes I get greedy and let myself push too long on the deck and burn off E for a shot at an enemy plane and let another enemy saddle up on my six.

[shiv]

Your P47M is faster than the spit, but in this situation the spit's better acceleration is going to kill you before you can get any separation. So extending isn't an options.

You might be able to get him in a scissors, although you'd be in a lot better position to do that if you were in a D11 instead of a M. Still, worth a try.

The barrel roll defense is what you need - here is a nice writeup:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,276908.25.html

[Bruv119]

you have to try and force an overshoot.  If the spit isn't that great and doesn't know throttle control you have a fighting chance.   

Ideally he wouldn't be as close as 800 but you have to create an angle and make his shot as difficult as possible.   Kill your speed, turn as hard as you can into him (pop a flap if possible) try and get underneath slightly and make your jug's profile as slim as possible.   If he is a bad shot, has his throttle wide open he may fly past.  That is when you may briefly have a shooting opportunity and if he starts turning with you maybe 1 or 2 turns to make a kill.   If he is good he A wouldn't have overshot and B regain the advantage when the spit starts slowing down into it's turning performance. 

[Randy1]

That was a good read on the BRD.  I need to practice that then watch the film.  I should save the WEP then until either the BRD or try to pop out of the barrel roll into a reversal.  I will practice that then go looking for that eager Spit.

On the hard, flap pop turn.  I have used that on a Mustang and it worked but it seems much harder to use that against a Spit. I have tried to work the turn in after a snap roll but timing on that is hard. 

Thanks for the help guys.  I am off to practice these ideas then maybe tonight get a chance to put them into practice.  I will post back how it goes.

[RTHolmes]

I like this guy, he actually wants to learn how to do pilot stuff in the jug

mmmmmm jugs.


its a yak not a spit, but same deal - tail chase 800yd and gaining. we're faster than 250 here because:
 1. the jug dumps its E quicker than a spit/yak so the faster you are before you break, the more differential you get after the break and
 2. the psych game again - I dragged him out for a coupla miles before reversing so his mindset is "faster is better", and he thinks that I'm running away scared. he is not expecting me to go all-in.

http://www.lumbergh.aquiss.com/ah/ah_films/yak_brd_kill.ahf


edit: being bounced at 250 in a jug you are pretty screwed because of the sluggish acceleration (although the M is better in this regard its still average at best.) In a multi-con engagement I'll only hit 250 at the top of a yo-yo, and preferably only if theres no guns pointing at me within 2,000yd ...

[Babalonian]

Good advice here.  Best thing to use in this situation is your head - accepting the situation/fate but not resigning to giving up yourself as their next kill just yet.  If/since you're not in a position to control/force the disengagement, you can only be in a position to control/force the engagement.

[Randy1]

It is all starting to come together although it will take some practice to get a good mind set on these two types of first and second moves. I think I stand a chance now to change a bad situation into a victory.

After watching RTH's film I can see what I was doing wrong on the flat turn.  I stayed in the flat turn too long letting spit or whatever beat me in a slow turn before I considered the reversal.

Now I have two options and variations of both.

RTH, the P47M is just a match for me.  Doggone if I could tell you why.  Never could do anything with the "N" even with 25% fuel and the light ammo load-out.

Thanks again for all the good advice.  i promise you I will put it to good use.

[RTHolmes]

The initial flat break turn is to very rapidly dump speed from 350 to corner speed (250ish), then you start the roll with a way better turn rate than the bad guy, who should still be faster and just about to pop out the front of your barrel. If you time it right it's shredding time

[Big Rat]

The big key to the BRD is watching your opponent, make sure he takes the bait.  As you cut throttle and break into him as low as you can make sure he's still trying for that lead turn.  this is where you roll over the top of him for the overshoot and reversal.  Be carefull though, the smart player will start with your turn and quickly take it into a high YOYO and avoid the overshoot and potential loss of position.  If you see them break verticle, level out and extend vs trying to go verticle with them or you end up often roped.  A BRD is often your best friend when pinned to the deck with an enemy on your close 6.

 
BigRat

[mechanic]

Hey randy, I spent a few hours today trying to replicate your scenario and couldn't not find a spit that wanted to latch on and chase my jug. Who would have believed that if they were not actually trying to achieve it?? 

here is a similar scenario with a pair of 109s latched on to an M jug. This might help give you some ideas perhaps although I would be the first to admit that a spitfire is harder to shake than a 109.


http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?xya1w25g14zki2w

[Randy1]

I had a great night last night.  I jumped right in the middle of a few furbals and made low passes at the enemy base that we were out numbered so it was easy to get two or more to chase me on the deck.  Early on I got shot down a lot as I was slow to implement the advice y'all gave me then as I started to gain confidence I got the hang of the BRD.  I even escaped an La7 and had two overshoots albeit I missed the shoot but I did have a shot.

Twice I went to WEP as I used a climbing BRD a couple of times up from the deck so when the top of the roll was at 1500 feet I pulled it back under in a reversal using two clicks of flap to pull out just above the water.  I had practiced that so I knew my minimum alt I needed.  That worked really well.  I could just about hear them shout in their radio, "Oh crap!" when they saw me turned back on them.  I think I poked a few holes in them.

Next I will practice the flat turn that y'all showed me in the films then go to the MA.

Mechanic, another great film.  I think I must have a bull's eye on my tail or a sign that says newbie, easy perks.    Well, that, and a low passes near a crowed enemy base with the 8-50s blazing from P47M seems to anger a few folks all at once.   I must say I felt like a trolling piece of bait at times.

Not sure what effect the new P47 damage model changes has on the P47M but I did test it out. 

Again guys thanks for all the solid advice.  I will post back when I try out the flat turn reversal y'all posted about and in the films in the next few days.

Super thread for me and I am sure for others.

[RTHolmes]

here is a similar scenario with a pair of 109s latched on to an M jug. This might help give you some ideas perhaps although I would be the first to admit that a spitfire is harder to shake than a 109.

very nice, and theres that pretend to run away, nose down, but off the throttle deception again. generates a good 80mph differential before the hard break

interesting variation on the BRD too - half barrel roll, then a half roll at the top and float on the flaps instead of completing the barrel roll. (I suspect Bruv teaches this one as I'm pretty sure everyone in The Few has used this against me at some point )

[Midway]

Hey randy, I spent a few hours today trying to replicate your scenario and couldn't not find a spit that wanted to latch on and chase my jug. Who would have believed that if they were not actually trying to achieve it??  

...

I will.

[mechanic]

Hehe, you're far too experienced for a trick like the BRD to work if you were latched on a jug's six in your spit8 at d800. Like others mentioned, if the spit pilot is experienced you are pretty much toast.

[Midway]

Hehe, you're far too experienced for a trick like the BRD to work if you were latched on a jug's six in your spit8 at d800. Like others mentioned, if the spit pilot is experienced you are pretty much toast.