Welcome Screen Logon Blues

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Again, it has little to do with the age of the person.  I think it is odd how people are suddenly happy to have to use keyboard shortcuts (first, you have to know about them) to access some things where there is not graphical interface available to those utilities.

Old, young, matters not.

There are better ways to do it.  Much better ways.  However, do not hold your breath waiting for Microsoft to do it.

Again, old user does not refer to the users age. Old user means a user who has previously learned the old version of the OS.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

In that case I should go see a doctor for my brain seems to be petrifying. When I tried Ubuntu for the first time several years ago, I had no major problems to find a device manager, program installer/deinstaller or shutdown button during my first trial, not to mention a bunch of other functions and features. With W8 I would've been in trouble if I hadn't learned some keyboard shortcuts which I consider being "heavy user/pro tricks". The Finnish Fast Guide to Win8 has not been published yet, so the only source for learning the GUI is the Internet. I agree, MS seems to have the basics quite well documented, but there's always the big "but": What if this is your first computer? How to install a mobile broadband device in between the tiles? What if, like it was with my first experience with W8, the mobile broadband only works on GPRS, making using the net a PITA? If the instructions to access the Internet only are in the Internet, what can you do?

Almost every device or even their packages must have warning texts and user's manuals in the language of the country they are being sold in. That doesn't apply to operating systems: If you buy a pc, there's a warning that the plastic bag can be dangerous if it covers your nose and mouth. The manual tells how to place the rig to avoid overheating; it also tells the names and places of every jack and knob. Heck, even my keyboard has a warning sticker on it, saying prolonged use of it can cause injuries. At first boot, you might get a screen telling how wonderful your new computer is. No "Read this carefully before doing anything else with this computer". No safety instructions, or warnings about losing your money, identity, reputation... Just a happy "start exploring!" -at your own risk... 

Bizman W8 is very similar to W7 if you leave the start menu out. Even there you can discover the option for 'all apps' quite quickly to get access to all the power user functions (on the lower right side of screen after right clicking on the new start screen).

Microsoft made a study that showed that nobody is going to read the instructions anyway even if they included a tutorial with the OS. That's why they didn't do it.

[Skuzzy]

Again, old user does not refer to the users age. Old user means a user who has previously learned the old version of the OS.

That's fine.  It still does not take way from how Microsoft made a mess of the interface, given how much better it could have been and easier to use.  

That is my point.

You want to make it the users fault.  I want to make it Microsoft's fault.  A difference of opinion.


However, I will still never allow an operating system on my computers where the provider of that OS is allowed to remove and/or block any application I want to run on it.  Whether they do it or not, is irrelevant.  There is nothing productive about Microsoft telling anyone what they can and cannot do with their computer.


By the way, DXDIAG is not (at least it was not last week) available in any menu option.  You have to use the Windows key + R to get to it.  Of course, you have to know that.  Quite silly.  Hopefully, one day, that gets fixed.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

That's fine.  It still does not take way from how Microsoft made a mess of the interface, given how much better it could have been and easier to use.  

That is my point.

You want to make it the users fault.  I want to make it Microsoft's fault.  A difference of opinion.


However, I will still never allow an operating system on my computers where the provider of that OS is allowed to remove and/or block any application I want to run on it.  Whether they do it or not, is irrelevant.  There is nothing productive about Microsoft telling anyone what they can and cannot do with their computer.


By the way, DXDIAG is not (at least it was not last week) available in any menu option.  You have to use the Windows key + R to get to it.  Of course, you have to know that.  Quite silly.  Hopefully, one day, that gets fixed.

I never knew the location of dxdiag even in the previous versions. In windows 8: Right click the lower left corner of the screen. Choose run. Type dxdiag. Press Enter. Pretty much the same as what I did in W7 except I left clicked on w7.

Skuzzy the user interface changes are nobodys fault (well, except perhaps Julie Larson-Green who we can "thank" also for the ribbon interface).

[Skuzzy]

I never knew the location of dxdiag even in the previous versions. In windows 8: Right click the lower left corner of the screen. Choose run. Type dxdiag. Press Enter. Pretty much the same as what I did in W7 except I left clicked on w7.

Skuzzy the user interface changes are nobodys fault (well, except perhaps Julie Larson-Green who we can "thank" also for the ribbon interface).

As Microsoft is the designer of the UI, I feel comfortable making it their fault for putting out such a poorly thought out desktop interface design.  They had a chance to do it right and completely dropped the ball.

I loved listening to her talk about how difficult the interface is to use without a touch screen.  Of course, according to her all computers will have a touch screen very soon.  Then she talks about how you have to use the touch screen in conjunction with the mouse and the keyboard.  ARRRGGHHHH!!!  What an idiotic design!

[Bizman]

I recently learned about a scientific study where they had found out that using an upright touch screen will strain the arm quite quickly.

In a computer magazine they stated that a tablet accompanied with a separate keyboard is more likely to be packed as a travel companion than a mini laptop because of convenience in use.

People don't read tutorials, that's true. They call someone who knows what to do. Unfortunately people don't want to pay €60 per hour for showing them how.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I recently learned about a scientific study where they had found out that using an upright touch screen will strain the arm quite quickly.

In a computer magazine they stated that a tablet accompanied with a separate keyboard is more likely to be packed as a travel companion than a mini laptop because of convenience in use.

People don't read tutorials, that's true. They call someone who knows what to do. Unfortunately people don't want to pay €60 per hour for showing them how.

Sell a computer to family member -> you get to be free IT support for the rest of life. And warranty on parts never ceases either!

[MrRiplEy[H]]

However, I will still never allow an operating system on my computers where the provider of that OS is allowed to remove and/or block any application I want to run on it.  Whether they do it or not, is irrelevant.  There is nothing productive about Microsoft telling anyone what they can and cannot do with their computer.

This by the way is AFAIK possible only on the apps that are distributed through the built in marketplace. The EULA includes this most likely due to the built in windows defender which has to be able to remove malicious programs within EULA permissions.

[Skuzzy]

This by the way is AFAIK possible only on the apps that are distributed through the built in marketplace. The EULA includes this most likely due to the built in windows defender which has to be able to remove malicious programs within EULA permissions.

Actually Microsoft can remotely remove any file from your Windows 8 computer, without notice. I am not saying they will, but as of Windows 8 they have that as an option.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Actually Microsoft can remotely remove any file from your Windows 8 computer, without notice. I am not saying they will, but as of Windows 8 they have that as an option.

Yes, but if you think about it the Windows Defender will do just that whenever it detects malicious code - and it has to be allowed to do that "at will" to protect the end-user. In fact anyone who uses antiviruses has signed this allowance to their AV of choice.

I've had annoyances already with AV:s when they've detected no-dvd or no-cd cracks I've used on my legally owned games as 'potentially harmful' code

[Skuzzy]

Yes, but if you think about it the Windows Defender will do just that whenever it detects malicious code - and it has to be allowed to do that "at will" to protect the end-user. In fact anyone who uses antiviruses has signed this allowance to their AV of choice.

I've had annoyances already with AV:s when they've detected no-dvd or no-cd cracks I've used on my legally owned games as 'potentially harmful' code

The ability to remotely remove any file from your computer, and/or application is not limited to infected/malicious code.  It has been specifically left open ended.

I am no saying they will abuse it, but it is there in Windows 8.  Aside from the abortion that is the GUI, it is enough for me to never own a copy of that OS. Voting with my wallet is all anyone can do.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The ability to remotely remove any file from your computer, and/or application is not limited to infected/malicious code.  It has been specifically left open ended.

I am no saying they will abuse it, but it is there in Windows 8.  Aside from the abortion that is the GUI, it is enough for me to never own a copy of that OS. Voting with my wallet is all anyone can do.

True. But the reality is that Windows has always been able to do that albeit not by order of MS necessarily. Backups...

Win8 does include many improvements such as built in 3D support, new DX versions, powershell, much improved resource management screen, improved file handling etc. As what goes for the rest of the problems I've long time ago refused to use Windows for anything but gaming. I find that linux/OSX handle other tasks much more conveniently.  

[ebfd11]

Someone is not getting what skuzzy is saying. As per being able to remove any file, if they want to know your personal info they can do it conveniently with out your knowledge.

In other words if you think your computer is safe you are dead wrong. Look at it this way MrRipley would you want anyone to have full access to your bank account? Because that is basically what they are doing with win8 ... Better yet send me your credit card and I will hold on to it, now I'm not promising not to use it but you never know.

All I know is I don't trust any large company that can remotely access my computer, to look at what is on it.

CrazyLwn

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Someone is not getting what skuzzy is saying. As per being able to remove any file, if they want to know your personal info they can do it conveniently with out your knowledge.

In other words if you think your computer is safe you are dead wrong. Look at it this way MrRipley would you want anyone to have full access to your bank account? Because that is basically what they are doing with win8 ... Better yet send me your credit card and I will hold on to it, now I'm not promising not to use it but you never know.

All I know is I don't trust any large company that can remotely access my computer, to look at what is on it.

CrazyLwn

MS has always been able to spy on you whenever they wanted. In fact even as we speak there is a full browsing history saved to a hidden database and a list of played media files sent to MS servers on every Windows user. If you're worried about privacy and eavesdropping your only choice is to use linux. That's what I do. Ironically even the most popular linux distro now contains embedded ad/trackware. So better not to use Ubuntu folks, use something without Unity.

No version of Windows is protected from eavesdropping. Only thing that changed with W8 is a few words in the EULA (which doesn't even hold in court in Europe by the way).

[Skuzzy]

Yes, Microsoft has always kept tabs on things you do with Windows, but now they have taken the next step, with Windows 8, in removing control of your computer from you and placing it in their hands.

Iti s not hard to see where they are going.  One day,you will not own anything on your computer.  You will rent/lease it all for a monthly/annual fee.  Fail to pay the fee and your application disappears.

Cloud computing is all about control of the applications as well.

One day end users will wake up and it will be too late.