Author Topic: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012  (Read 5247 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 05:12:34 PM »
I am highly skeptical that the Me410 will out turn the Mossie, certainly not by the huge margin shown there.  Every time I have test flown the Me410 it has strenuously objected to turning.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 06:04:04 PM »
I've never tried the 410 with an empty weapons bay, maybe that's the secret
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline MOSQ

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 10:17:01 PM »
Ya'll are correct, I had a typo for the 410 No Flap time in my spreadsheet. I also retested the Full Flaps Radius
The correct figures are:
No Flaps: Radius 988.4, DPS 14.0 ( Only the 262 is worse, even a B-25 turns better!)
Full Flaps: Radius 920.1, DPS 12.1

I also retested the full flaps Mossie6 and it moved up 1 notch.

The list is updated to Mosq's Sustained Turn List 12-2012 rev 1. I hope I didn't break the link or make ya'll login to get it, if so I will work on the Skydrive permissions again.

Thanks everyone for pointing out the anomaly in the data!!

 :salute
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 11:09:32 PM by MOSQ »

Offline Karnak

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 11:41:47 PM »
Check the Spitfire Mk IX again as well.

I can never remember which is the better turn direction for each aircraft, but there are a few that turn better the other way.  La-5FN, Spitfire Mk XIV and Yak-9s as I recall.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 11:49:43 PM »
 :aok

Check the Spitfire Mk IX again as well.

I can never remember which is the better turn direction for each aircraft, but there are a few that turn better the other way.  La-5FN, Spitfire Mk XIV and Yak-9s as I recall.

I thought the IX might be off too.

As to right turners add the Typh/Temp to that list but I don't remember the La-5 being on it.

In other anomolies the 109K-4 and the Spit XIV might actually turn better at a reduced throttle settings but that opens a whole new can of worms.
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Offline MOSQ

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 01:36:40 AM »
Check the Spitfire Mk IX again as well.

I can never remember which is the better turn direction for each aircraft, but there are a few that turn better the other way.  La-5FN, Spitfire Mk XIV and Yak-9s as I recall.

Good Spot on the Spit 9, it was not right. Corrected in Rev 2. I also checked the 5, 8, and 16, they all had minor changes but were very close to the old data, probably within experimental error. They are also changed in Rev2.

As far as Left vs Right turns, there's no way I'm going to test all the planes in both directions! I did some testing in 2006 on a couple of planes that folks said turned better one way but I could never get them to have a significant difference. They may be easier to turn Left vs Right because of Torque control issues, but that doesn't mean that actually turn faster, just easier to hold at the stall limit in one direction.

I may be wrong, and I invite anyone to film tests of planes that you think turn better, send me the film, and I will be glad to change the data and note what direction it was turning. And you'll get credit for doing the tests in the notes section.

Offline save

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 02:28:04 AM »
Nice list !!!

Something that would interest me, is to see how much 25% of fuel would change a particular plane type.
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Offline Slade

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 06:08:38 AM »
Thanks for posting.  This is great!  :salute
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 07:15:20 AM »
Too good to be true...  :)
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 08:34:10 AM »
MOSQ,

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting testing them all in both directions.  Just maybe testing in their best direction.  Typhoon and Tempest also have props spinning the opposite way.
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Offline MOSQ

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2012, 11:42:51 AM »
Nice list !!!

Something that would interest me, is to see how much 25% of fuel would change a particular plane type.

Thanks for the kudo Save.
I'm not sure what you are asking here. Do you mean testing all the planes at all fuel loads? I tested a few planes at 25,50,75, and 99% to see how much the change makes and they are in the list. Doing all the planes is beyond my personal time allotment. Then when you add in various weapons packages it becomes a mind boggling number of combinations.

Karnak, I'll re-test the the Typhoon and Spit 14 to see if it makes a difference.

Again, if anyone wants to help with the testing I'm happy to add your tests to the list. All I need is a film of your test. One hint on testing, do it over water far enough out so that you can see nothing but the water horizon, then as you do circles you'll find it easier to hold the horizon at some place in the canopy frame and keep it there. It works a lot better than trying to watch the Climb/Descent gauge.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 11:46:00 AM by MOSQ »

Offline Karnak

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2012, 12:01:42 PM »
I have a spreadsheet I have been gradually adding performance numbers into for fighter bombers in AH.  Turn testing is an area I have been unsure of how to determine radius or rate.  I fear mathematics is not my strong point.
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Offline Gaston

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2012, 01:17:56 PM »

  What's neat is that this is all sustained, so no high Gs or high speeds to muddle the easily muddled...

  Early P-47Ds and late FW-190As range from 3 to 5 DPS behind Spitfire Mk IXs and Me-109G-6/14...  :rolleyes:

  For more historical accuracy, fly the formers as if they were the latters... :old:

  Gaston

Offline Karnak

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2012, 01:41:11 PM »
  What's neat is that this is all sustained, so no high Gs or high speeds to muddle the easily muddled...

  Early P-47Ds and late FW-190As range from 3 to 5 DPS behind Spitfire Mk IXs and Me-109G-6/14...  :rolleyes:

  For more historical accuracy, fly the formers as if they were the latters... :old:

  Gaston
Still going on about your alternate physics?  Want to share some of the "math" yet?
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Mosq's Sustained Turn List 2012
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2012, 01:55:56 PM »
Thanks! :aok

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