Author Topic: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...  (Read 7143 times)

Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #195 on: December 24, 2012, 01:37:22 AM »
I completely disagree with this......

this type of thinking is what started the whole process.


I know you are a smart guy WW and most often I agree with you.....but we OWN those roads.....this is one of many things that........

well I must stop there.

The reality is that we own squat... The State or County can suspend your drivers license for too many speeding tickets.  They cannot suspend your right to free speech. The first is a privilege, the second is a right. They are very different under the law.
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Offline ink

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #196 on: December 24, 2012, 01:41:51 AM »
and therein lies the problem :aok

Offline bozon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #197 on: December 24, 2012, 06:57:36 AM »
So, I defy anyone to argue successfully that the "assault weapon" and high capacity magazines are any more lethal or effective as the 19th century technology lever gun at close quarters. Those uneducated in combat arms may think that the AR-15 is too deadly for civilians to own. That's just baloney. In a "gun free school zone", any rifle, shotgun or pistol could kill dozens, because the victims are absolutely defenseless. They should change the signs outside from Gun Free School Zone to Lunatic Free Fire Zone.
First, I agree that the AR15 is a terrible weapon. I carried a few guns during my service, several of which were the older cousin of the 15', the M-16. I had very little confidence in that rifle and I hear from my younger brother that had the AR-15 that they are no better. It is a good sports rifle I guess - the firing range targets do not shoot back.

As for the "gun free school zone" comments, I agree that ANY firearm can cause carnage in such an environment. No weapons and definitely no gun should enter school unless it is carried by a security guard. Not even a brown Bess. "Weapon" can be difficult to define because a sharpened toothbrush can be a weapon too. At least firearms and knives are well defined and can be forbidden.
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Offline rpm

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #198 on: December 24, 2012, 07:05:04 AM »
If you need 15 rounds to kill a deer, you don't need to be hunting. If you think you're going to stop "the government" with a rifle, you haven't been to an armory. If you thing "the apocalypse" is coming, you haven't checked the Mayan calendar results...
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #199 on: December 24, 2012, 07:37:40 AM »
If you need 15 rounds to kill a deer, you don't need to be hunting. If you think you're going to stop "the government" with a rifle, you haven't been to an armory. If you thing "the apocalypse" is coming, you haven't checked the Mayan calendar results...
And none of those reasons factor in to the purchase of my ARs.

Offline Dago

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #200 on: December 24, 2012, 07:50:48 AM »
Solving all the worlds problems on AH BB, one thread at a time.
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Offline rpm

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #201 on: December 24, 2012, 07:58:26 AM »
And none of those reasons factor in to the purchase of my ARs.
Everyone has their own reasons. Just saying I'm confident in my bolt action rifles to suit my hunting/Year Zero needs. Really can't understand a logical civilian purpose for one with a 30 round magazine.
Therein lies the debate.
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Offline camnite

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #202 on: December 24, 2012, 08:29:53 AM »
where i live, in the southern U.S., we have a rampant hog problem. hogs destroy millions of dollars in crop and livestock. it has gotten so bad that the state of alabama, louisiana, and mississippi have declared open season, no date limit, no bag limit. usually these feral swine travel in packs of 40 or more. this is a good example, and one many of my friends have been in. someone brought up 19 shots in 43 seconds earlier. in 43 seconds, the herd has usually gotten to cover 20 seconds earlier and your chance of culling the group is gone. just thought to give one data point on why ar's and high-cap mags are needed.
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #203 on: December 24, 2012, 08:39:15 AM »
Everyone has their own reasons. Just saying I'm confident in my bolt action rifles to suit my hunting/Year Zero needs. Really can't understand a logical civilian purpose for one with a 30 round magazine.
Therein lies the debate.

Correct. 

Need is subjective.  Be careful with where you allow the line to be drawn.  The next time someone picks up a pencil it may be drawn a little closer to your interests.   

:salute   

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Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #204 on: December 24, 2012, 09:10:40 AM »
Everyone has their own reasons. Just saying I'm confident in my bolt action rifles to suit my hunting/Year Zero needs. Really can't understand a logical civilian purpose for one with a 30 round magazine.
Therein lies the debate.
So I'm not to have it because you don't understand or see the need for it? Not happening.

Offline Infidelz

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #205 on: December 24, 2012, 09:21:26 AM »
Everyone has their own reasons. Just saying I'm confident in my bolt action rifles to suit my hunting/Year Zero needs. Really can't understand a logical civilian purpose for one with a 30 round magazine.
Therein lies the debate.

No debate. It's our business. If you don't want a 30 round mag, don't buy them. If you don't want a DMR with 20 round mags, don't build one. If a 50 cal is to much for you don't get one. If you feel an MG-42 is not your style, don't buy one. That said I am sure you are a well meaning person and we can agree to disagree.

And one other thing, its OK for the presidents men to give assault rifles to the Mexican cartels and kill US boarder agents, but its not OK for me to have one? Please the hypocrisy of you people.

Infidelz
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 09:27:39 AM by Infidelz »

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #206 on: December 24, 2012, 09:39:09 AM »
who said that "its OK for the presidents men to give assault rifles to the Mexican cartels and kill US boarder agents"?

I cant find the post :headscratch:
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Offline rpm

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #207 on: December 24, 2012, 09:45:10 AM »
No debate. It's our business. If you don't want a 30 round mag, don't buy them. If you don't want a DMR with 20 round mags, don't build one. If a 50 cal is to much for you don't get one. If you feel an MG-42 is not your style, don't buy one. That said I am sure you are a well meaning person and we can agree to disagree.

And one other thing, its OK for the presidents men to give assault rifles to the Mexican cartels and kill US boarder agents, but its not OK for me to have one? Please the hypocrisy of you people.

Infidelz
Mixing 2 different issues in one discussion. If one particular weapon kept showing up in mass killings, don't you think removing access to that weapon wouldn't at least slow the cycle? How many innocent children have to be murdered before it becomes a viable solution? 40, 100, 1000?

Australia had a mass shooting in 1996 and after banning a particular weapon hasn't had another in over 15 years. They still have guns, just not one particular type.

As for "Fast and Furious", that was a 1st Class Cluster from the get go.
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Offline Dago

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #208 on: December 24, 2012, 09:52:18 AM »
Mixing 2 different issues in one discussion. If one particular weapon kept showing up in mass killings, don't you think removing access to that weapon wouldn't at least slow the cycle? How many innocent children have to be murdered before it becomes a viable solution? 40, 100, 1000?

Australia had a mass shooting in 1996 and after banning a particular weapon hasn't had another in over 15 years. They still have guns, just not one particular type.

As for "Fast and Furious", that was a 1st Class Cluster from the get go.

Australia had to count on the USA to stop the Japanese from invading.

Australia is often overrun with mice and rabbits.

Australia doesn't have the 2nd Amendment.  We do.

I love Australians, but they are not us, we are not them.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #209 on: December 24, 2012, 10:01:19 AM »
Smokin,

Every generation since the beginning of time has thought the the kids of the one after theirs were spoiled and doomed.  It's the nature of the beast.  We all want to romanticize the past.  I'm a history junkie.  But if you really look at it, and what was being written and said at the time about the 'kids', it's always the same.  Just because the world changes, and new 'stuff' appears that the kids want, doesn't mean we've fallen off the rails.

Everything you talk about you and your wife doing with your 10 and 7 year old, is what good parents do.  Parents have always done that.  Are there parents who aren't good at it?  Absolutely.  But that's been true forever as well.

Since this is a WW2 based game, I'll use 'the Greatest Generation' as an example.  We love to make them larger then life because of how we've glorified and romanticized that war.    I was sitting at a family gathering a while back and someone started a rant about the current generation and was lamenting them not being like the "Greatest Generation'.  I pointed to my 21 year old nephew who'd just come back from a year long tour in combat with the 101st in Afghanistan and said there was a member of the greatest generation in the room and pointed at him.   

He struggled in school, tested limits with his parents and all the usual stuff.  But when push came to shove, he did what was needed to do, just like those kids back in the 40s.  If you dig in to their stories, they screwed up, tested limits, challenged their parents too.

You can't blame the kids for being kids now, as they didn't have a say in the matter.   Nor can you blame the parents for parenting now.  It doesn't mean the world is coming to an end.  It's just another generation dealing with what parents and kids deal with.

To say that today's kids don't get it, is to suggest the parents don't get it.  Well that means the parents of the parents didn't get it and so on.

Understand that people react to tragedy in different ways and want to find someone or something to blame.  It's not rational.  But it is part of grieving.  The AR15 I sold recently was bought right after my 21 year old son died.  I bought it and an Springfield M1A because we enjoyed shooting and talking guns.  I bought them in the agony of the pain of losing him.  In my mind I thought that maybe, just maybe he'd come home because I could finally get the guns he really wanted.  Guess what.  It didn't work.  But it was, was it was, and in some crazy way it helped me.  I sat up by myself with that M1A where we'd deer hunted, dreaming and praying my son would walk out of the woods and join me.  Didn't happen.  I sold the AR15 and gave the M1A to his best friend's Dad because I knew I'd never shoot Andrew's guns and I suppose by not having them anymore, I finally admitted to my self that he's truly gone.

So now folks who are shocked, horrified and grieving the loss of those kids and teachers are looking, begging for an answer.  And in that they are talking about guns.  it's their right whether it's rational or not.  If it helps folks to deal with this tragedy by talking about gun control, so be it.  For the gun guys to panic  in fear they'll lose their guns is just silly.

Step back, look at the entire picture and put it in perspective.

And keep up the good work raising your kids :aok

 :salute

You and I (and many others) are not much unlike each other, really.  I think we both have an understanding of the issue but we both approach it from different angles based on our experiences, education, and perspectives on past, present, and future.  Your comment on the "big picture": That is exactly what I am doing.  ;)

In regards to the "Greatest Generation", I think you're exactly right.  WWII was/is very romanticized even though the people did then what they had to do, just like generations before and after then.  Though I dare say we, in general, in the USA are hardly effected by what is going on in 'stan and Iraq today as they were during WWII.  I do not see rationing, I do not see blackouts, I do not see people buying war bonds, I do not see scrap collection depots, and I do not see a draft in effect.  I surely hope I do not sound disrespectful to those families that have lost loved one during the past decade over seas, I certainly do not mean to be because for sure those families have been impacted for more than the rest of us know.

I've been reading as many of these anti-gun/pro-AWB stories as I can to see what angle people are playing to get their agenda through. It appears that there will be a package deal presented to limit magazines to 10 rounds and prohibit flash suppressors/muzzle devices/bayonet lugs/folding stocks and other cosmetic features on semi-auto rifles (banning the "high powered assault weapon".  The architects of the new bill are Sen Feinstein (D-CA), and Sen Schumer (D-NY).  She has already stated that the high capacity "clips" and firearms with these cosmetic features on them already out there in circulation will be grandfathered in.  This means they will still be available. This means that the ability of a person to obtain a high capacity magazine and a firearm to use that magazine will be available to those who want to obtain it.  Also, it means that the function of that rifle to perform will not change for the lack of a flash suppressor, lack of a folding stock, or lack of a bayonet lug.  This is the kind of thing that perplexes me, I simply do not understand why people think we need to pass "feel good" laws.  These kind of laws are only cosmetic in nature and they serve no function in lessening violence.  It means nothing will change.

It is already against the law to murder.  It is against the law in CT to have a firearm in a public building. It is already against the law for someone under the age of 18 to purchase/own a rifle and shotgun. It is already against the law for someone under the age of 21 to own a handgun. A rifle must have a barrel length of 16 in. If the rifle barrel is shorter than 16in that it is restricted to having no butt stock (or the own may obtain a $200 tax stamp that allows a "short barreled rifle"). It is already against the law to own a full auto fire arm (unless the owner want to pay 5 digits for the weapon, pay a major tax fee, go through an extensive background check, and waste a lot of high priced ammo).  Like I've said before, the baddie is going to do their bad regardless of what tools they need to use.  FWIW, I'd rather have an armed baddie walk up to a school with an armed person(s) inside vs having a McViegh bomb be driven up to the front door.  At least the targeted people have a chance to respond.

To everyone else: please make sure you check your language and allow Skuzzy-Claus to keep this thread open.  If you do not agree with someone please remember that just because someone does not think like you does not mean they are wrong.  Do not leave your maturity at the door when you check in to this thread.                
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