Author Topic: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...  (Read 7096 times)

Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #330 on: December 29, 2012, 06:16:17 AM »
in the UK gun laws mean that police have to come out and check that you have secure storage for guns  before you even get a licence . you also have to pass psychological examination .  Would you object to such measures being applied to the US.  plus ammo has to be locked separate to guns   ( can still be in the same room just not the same cabinet) .  UK gun laws are not that restrictive or difficult to attain a licence . I've been looking into it  as i want to try my hand at shooting (got my eye on getting a lee Enfield SMLE No.4 carbine)  I was discussing  this with an ex armour for the army .  He gave me the low down , suggesting the easiest way would be to store the weapon at a gun club . 

From my discussions it seems  the biggest issues is safe , secure storage .  I believe that this is needs to be involved in gun laws and licensing . This wont reduce your freedoms in any way but will infact help to keep your freedom . It's a far better the defence to gun owner ship than just letting idiots scream only about the 2nd .  Actively demonstrating that gun owners (not the NRA as all that seems to be doing is fuelling gun hatred) want to cool the situation seems a worth while endeavour.

Maybe you ladies and gents should start a more sensible organisation that will co-operate with the anti-gun lobby a little . At the moment it appears to the outside world that both sides are unwilling to budge on anything  due to other side not moving .   Maybe making a small concession would give mature gun owners a good moral footing  in the eyes of the world .  Maybe the sensible people on both sides need to speak up , work together to resolve the situation.     
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #331 on: December 29, 2012, 08:47:21 AM »
in the UK gun laws mean that police have to come out and check that you have secure storage for guns  before you even get a licence . you also have to pass psychological examination .  Would you object to such measures being applied to the US.  plus ammo has to be locked separate to guns   ( can still be in the same room just not the same cabinet) .  UK gun laws are not that restrictive or difficult to attain a licence . I've been looking into it  as i want to try my hand at shooting (got my eye on getting a lee Enfield SMLE No.4 carbine)  I was discussing  this with an ex armour for the army .  He gave me the low down , suggesting the easiest way would be to store the weapon at a gun club .  

From my discussions it seems  the biggest issues is safe , secure storage .  I believe that this is needs to be involved in gun laws and licensing . This wont reduce your freedoms in any way but will infact help to keep your freedom . It's a far better the defence to gun owner ship than just letting idiots scream only about the 2nd .  Actively demonstrating that gun owners (not the NRA as all that seems to be doing is fuelling gun hatred) want to cool the situation seems a worth while endeavour.

Maybe you ladies and gents should start a more sensible organisation that will co-operate with the anti-gun lobby a little . At the moment it appears to the outside world that both sides are unwilling to budge on anything  due to other side not moving .   Maybe making a small concession would give mature gun owners a good moral footing  in the eyes of the world .  Maybe the sensible people on both sides need to speak up , work together to resolve the situation.      

I store my guns in a gun safe, with the ammunition. One exception is my security shotgun, which is stored loaded.

This whole issue was resolved some years ago by the Supreme Court and lower courts that have ruled that individuals have the right to personal firearms and the the storage of these arms, limiting access in an emergency is unconstitutional as it denies or can deny the right to immediate self-defense.

Thanks, but very few American gun owners are interested in the British model.

Also, recall that in 1940, when a German invasion was a genuine threat, the British Home Guard was drilling with pitchforks and a handful of shotguns. Why? Because their were very few privately owned firearms and so many military rifles had been left behind in France. The NRA, which you are bashing, shipped many tens of thousands of privately donated firearms to Britain to marginally equip the Home Guard.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 09:09:51 AM by Widewing »
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Widewing

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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #332 on: December 29, 2012, 08:59:53 AM »
i am starting to look into gun safes. by new jersey state law, i should have my permits by april at latest, since i have no record, and have never been commited. it just takes a long time here. my rifles will be stored in that safe, which will be in the basement, and bolted to the floor. hand guns will be there too.
 
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #333 on: December 29, 2012, 09:27:26 AM »
I didn't want to "bash" the NRA as such but  it does seem overly "zealous" in fighting a gun ban .  Maybe having too much emotion attached to the situation.  Maybe it's the way US media reports that makes it very difficult for other nations to see a more balanced view of the NRA (portrayed as  a bunch of die hard that wont listen to any criticism) . It's why I stated that the middle ground people should speak up more against both sides .  At the moment the extremes of both sides are so loud that responsible and reasonable voices can not be heard . 

Wide wing I respect that yourself and many other gun owners in the US are responsible  and to be held up as how things should be done . 

I'm not saying that the US should adopt all of the UK model but that maybe aspects of it should be investigated and adapted for your country . I'm sure that yourself would agree that a more active role in instructing people and making storage safe for the user and family .   

While such measures wont stop illegal gun crime it could reduce  gun accidents and such events  as witnessed in the last few years .       
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Offline Rino

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #334 on: December 29, 2012, 10:25:13 AM »
     Good luck with that Lee-Enfield.  Excellent weapon, I have steered away from one because I heard that .303 ammo is not that easy
to find and expensive as well.  Apparently it shoots a little too well  :D

     Well locking your ammo away from your weapons makes them practically useless for home defense.  I suppose a cricket bat makes
more sense in that case.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 10:27:28 AM by Rino »
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #335 on: December 29, 2012, 11:32:41 AM »
Talking to the armourer he said I can get a cheap conversion kit that will make it rimless and  able to use 22 not just .303  . The rule is that the ammo can be inside the same room even safe but have a separate lock .  I can see that such a thing would not be practical for US  home defence  but seeing how the use of fire arms  during home robbery is so low in the UK it wouldn't make to much of a difference . 

side note cricket bats bloody hurt and have a longer reach than a knife with almost as much pain as the ball  speeding at 90 MPH (I got hit by one while keeping wicket in school on the forehead  I was out cold for 15 mins)   

As I said maybe an adaptation on some aspects of UK laws in purchasing fire arms and licensing could be helpful   

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #336 on: December 29, 2012, 12:04:27 PM »
Yet proper storage of weapons may have recently prevented 27 deaths.

How do you know they werent properly stored? Maybe they were and he just happened to find the key? His mother was found in her bed. Indicating she may have been asleep. You never tried to sneak anything while your parents were sleeping?
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #337 on: December 29, 2012, 12:11:39 PM »
I didn't want to "bash" the NRA as such but  it does seem overly "zealous" in fighting a gun ban .  Maybe having too much emotion attached to the situation.  Maybe it's the way US media reports that makes it very difficult for other nations to see a more balanced view of the NRA (portrayed as  a bunch of die hard that wont listen to any criticism) . It's why I stated that the middle ground people should speak up more against both sides .  At the moment the extremes of both sides are so loud that responsible and reasonable voices can not be heard . 

Wide wing I respect that yourself and many other gun owners in the US are responsible  and to be held up as how things should be done . 

I'm not saying that the US should adopt all of the UK model but that maybe aspects of it should be investigated and adapted for your country . I'm sure that yourself would agree that a more active role in instructing people and making storage safe for the user and family .   

While such measures wont stop illegal gun crime it could reduce  gun accidents and such events  as witnessed in the last few years .       

Actually, nationwide, while guns sales were up 45% in 2012, gun injuries are down almost 20%. Closer to 30% in California.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/27/5079151/california-gun-sales-increase.html

I am a strong supporter of gun safety training for all, not just gun owners. It should be taught in our schools, inasmuch as 60% of all households have a firearm. However, the liberal teacher's unions and left leaning administrators won't even hear of this. IMHO, they are being obtuse. They can teach 12 year-olds about condoms, that's okay in their minds. However, no one has ever been accidentally shot with a condom and died... It's just common sense, which is a term that is becoming more and more of an oxymoron in this world.

Another simple way to encourage gun safety training is to make the cost of it tax deductible. Anything that can reduce gun accidents should be encouraged by the government at the state and federal level. Again, common sense.

Storing firearms is important. I used to store mine in a closest with an entry door lock and deadbolt (requiring 2 different keys to get into it). However, a determined burglar could eventually defeat this and get to the guns. So, I bought two Stack-On brand steel gun cabinets (really just very stout steel lockers). I keep these in the locked closet, lag bolted to wall studs. Each holds up to 8 rifles/shotguns and my revolvers. Some of my black powder rifles are in the closet, with some actually on display on the gun rack in my den. However, these are retained by a cable lock through the rack and trigger guards. The cap nipples are plugged with solder, making them useless. Besides, a burglar would not have clue one on what was required to load and shoot one of these, and they are all single shot. The powder and ball are locked up.

You said you had your eye on a Enfield rifle. I own several Enfields, a US made 1943 (Savage) No.4 Mk.I*, a Canadian made 1944 (Longbranch) No.4 Mk.I* and a beautiful Australian made 1917 (Lithgow) No.I Mk.III*. Even today, I would not consider myself badly armed with either of those three Enfields. As to the cost of shooting an Enfield... Surplus ammo is getting harder to come by, and is increasing in cost. New manufacture ammo is expensive, with the cheaper.303 ball ammo (FMJ) going for between 80 and 90 cents a round. High quality ammo can easily exceed $1 per round. So, consider the investment required to shoot frequently.

The least expensive rifle to shoot is a .22 cal type. A good .22 caliber bolt action rifle is inexpensive operate. Here, I can buy top quality, very accurate ammo for about $25 for 525 rounds. My BRNO (a Mauser design) Model 1 rifle is a true tack driver. I frequently take the BRNO and my Henry lever gun out for a relaxing afternoon of shooting, and not spend very much money. Of course, I haul a lot of gear with me. Two rifles, ammo box, tool box, cleaning box, bench rest pads, spotting scope, and a folding stool. Plus, a thermos of coffee.

My regards,

Widewing

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #338 on: December 29, 2012, 12:14:46 PM »
The thing that cracks me up about the whole anti gun lobby right now is the emphasis they are placing on the so called assault gun which in spite of mass shootings continues to be the one gun that people get killed by the least.

If I were anti gun. (I am not) I'd push for a banning of pistols rather then rifles. Rifles are much harder to hide when your strolling down a street or into a building.
Likewise the proposed ban on high capacity mags is just as silly. I mean really. how long does it take to change out a mag?

Lower capacity mags wouldnt have made a bit of difference in the Conn shooting even if you were only allowed 2 round mags. Same thing with the AR itself if it even was in fact the weapon used. The gun woudlnt have made a bit of difference. Glok 9 mil carries on average between 12-15 rounds right? And he had two?
He would only have had to change out clips on one gun
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #339 on: December 29, 2012, 12:23:14 PM »
The thing that cracks me up about the whole anti gun lobby right now is the emphasis they are placing on the so called assault gun which in spite of mass shootings continues to be the one gun that people get killed by the least.

If I were anti gun. (I am not) I'd push for a banning of pistols rather then rifles. Rifles are much harder to hide when your strolling down a street or into a building.
Likewise the proposed ban on high capacity mags is just as silly. I mean really. how long does it take to change out a mag?

Lower capacity mags wouldnt have made a bit of difference in the Conn shooting even if you were only allowed 2 round mags. Same thing with the AR itself if it even was in fact the weapon used. The gun woudlnt have made a bit of difference. Glok 9 mil carries on average between 12-15 rounds right? And he had two?
He would only have had to change out clips on one gun

 They are i think. check the feinstein thread on the other bbs.
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #340 on: December 29, 2012, 12:26:40 PM »
Talking to the armourer he said I can get a cheap conversion kit that will make it rimless and  able to use 22 not just .303

Ive shot alot with the lee enfield T, its accurate but a bloody heavy rifle for a .22LR! If you want to shoot rifles, get your FAC for £50 and grab a semi-auto Ruger 10/22 for ~£250 and you can keep it at home, target shoot at the range, or take woodies, rabbits and squirrels for the pot, or rats for pest control (as long as you have permission). cheap too at ~10p a round, I dread to think how much .303 rounds cost.
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #341 on: December 29, 2012, 12:27:16 PM »
The term Assault riffle is tosh . you strip down an AR-15 and any semi-auto hunting riffle it's pretty much the same.  

Wide-wing Yeah ammo in the Uk is a bit pricey but I only expect to do shooting one weekend or so a month .  I might just convert it to .22  .

I think seeing how the US has such a gun culture then it would make perfect sense to teach firearm safety to every one . What if some one finds a gun on the side of the road ect.  
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #342 on: December 29, 2012, 12:30:05 PM »
Ive shot alot with the lee enfield T, its accurate but a bloody heavy rifle for a .22LR! If you want to shoot rifles, get your FAC for £50 and grab a semi-auto Ruger 10/22 for ~£250 and you can keep it at home, target shoot at the range, or take woodies, rabbits and squirrels for the pot, or rats for pest control (as long as you have permission). cheap too at ~10p a round, I dread to think how much .303 rounds cost.


But it's not a lee Enfield  . I'd like to shoot it more for it's history  . 
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #343 on: December 29, 2012, 12:32:34 PM »
fair enuf, just handling one you can feel the history oozing out it :aok

how much are they going for?
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #344 on: December 29, 2012, 12:39:17 PM »
seen between £300 - £700


1950's SMLE for about £350  but a WWII Carbine was £700
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