Tested HE

[Tank-Ace]

So no firefly ever fired a single HE round in combat in WWII?

And it isn't true that most P-51's that lift with ordnance take 2 1000lb bombs and 6 HVAR rockets?



Also, the M4A3(76)W carried HE rounds, and used them in combat. The fact that some units complained about the decreased HE performance compared to the standard M4's proves as much.

Gunsight and trajectory for the 75mm Gun M3 are correct, or very close. For both rounds, mind you. The HE round would not under any circumstances have the same trajectory as the AP rounds, either M72, M61, or M61A1. The HE round had a different mass, and a lower muzzle velocity. Even one of those would result in a different trajectory from the AP round, and both could result in a significant difference.

However, since you seem to know it is incorrect, you may wish to share this information with HTC.

[Karnak]

Incorrect on all counts. Of course I expect this sort of misinformation from you.

If you'd tell the truth it would help, but seeing as all you seem to do is cherry pick data to support your desires regardless of historical accuracy, well, that isn't surprising.

[Butcher]

Apparently you slept through the posted images of P-51Ds that actually DID use two 1000lb bombs and six 5" rockets.  

EDIT: Before further hijacking is attempted:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,339900.msg4484120.html#msg4484120

Its been proven the photo was from Korea, next.

[lyric1]

Its been proven the photo was from Korea, next.

Nope that photo has been proved 1944.

[Butcher]

Nope that photo has been proved 1944.

What proof it flew in combat with that load?

[lyric1]

What proof it flew in combat with that load?

First off in other threads the naysayers said no such photo will be found of a WWII era P51D because such a load out was never done.

The naysayers say provide proof just one photo.

Megalodon finds the photo. 

Now you want actual proof of combat usage.

I don't have the answer I don't know.

The photo in question if I recall correctly was taken 1944 in Europe some place,you will have to ask Megalodon on that one.

At this point I would lean towards what Megalodon found as evidence that they were used.

On this topic your track record is less than stellar.

Maybe best to move on to other topics.

 

 

Actually I pointed out numerous times they wern't used in WW2, you wanted it I showed the source and proof in the other forums - even in Korea they did NOT use 1,000lb bombs and rockets even when the target was CAS less then 100 miles from Seoul.

Find me a photo of a D mustang with 1,000lb bombs and HVAR rockets or some source on who used it.

WWII.



Korea.

[Fish42]

Yes, here is a B-17 with rockets on the very rarely used external racks.



Actually there is not evidence that it was used in combat... but here is a photo so we should have it.

[Karnak]

I will not dispute that the photo is from WWII.  That said, of all the photos of laden P-51s from WWII that people have found only a single photo shows the loadout that is by far the most common in AH.  And now one of the guy's who opposes any restriction on the P-51D is asking for restrictions on the M4A3(76) and Firefly Vc because they didn't commonly, per his claims, use HE rounds.  He doesn't claim they never used them, just that they very rarely used or carried them.

In that vein, I'll note that my pet toy probably ought not have the ability to carry bombs and rockets at the same time.

[Butcher]

One photo really doesn't show any proof, I mean here's an example:



So it must of served in WW2... Fact is we know its a Do-335 and all were prototypes. Far as the P51-D is concerned, I cannot find any documentation to provide they flew with bombs AND rockets, biggest reason I can see is it was used as an escort fighter while P-47 and P-38 were religated to ground attack duty.

There wasn't a need for P-51s to carry ords, at least until the end, but then how come there are not thousands of photos or even documents saying it did?

Maybe it was a field modification, which we don't allow in Aces High - and plenty of planes have field mods. I just try to rely on facts otherwise one can argue - if one plane can use bombs AND rockets and not historical, why dont we get the Do-335?

[Tank-Ace]

If you're talking the German planes when you say field mods, most if not all widely used field mods were turned into official upgrade kits.

[Butcher]

If you're talking the German planes when you say field mods, most if not all widely used field mods were turned into official upgrade kits.

German, American everyone had field modifications - look at the B-26, it was adapted to carry torpedoes as the Fw-190.

[Tank-Ace]

OK, thought you meant planes in AH have field mods.

[Chalenge]

I will not dispute that the photo is from WWII.  That said, of all the photos of laden P-51s from WWII that people have found only a single photo shows the loadout that is by far the most common in AH.  And now one of the guy's who opposes any restriction on the P-51D is asking for restrictions on the M4A3(76) and Firefly Vc because they didn't commonly, per his claims, use HE rounds.  He doesn't claim they never used them, just that they very rarely used or carried them.

In that vein, I'll note that my pet toy probably ought not have the ability to carry bombs and rockets at the same time.

You seem to foget that cameras in the 40's were not as prevalent as they are today. The country was just coming out of depression and the fact that photos were taken at all is amazing! Also, we were in a different age when secrecy was actually maintained even by the press (FDR confined to a wheelchair for instance) and photos of aircraft primed for a mission would have been something they looked out for. I dont find the lack of images surprising at all for that very reason.

Also, why are you focusing on this one request? It would be better if the HE rounds for the Firefly were realistic and then no one would carry them anyway, because they just didnt have any power! Until they are modified they should be removed just like the cannon on the 234 should be removed. In that case they were never used.

[Ack-Ack]

He doesn't claim they never used them, just that they very rarely used or carried them.

He's not shown the 17 pdr HE round (either the Mk I or Mk II) were rarely issued to Firefly tank crews, especially in light of the fact that there is ample evidence (like what I posted) that Firefly crews were issued HE rounds and used them as well.

ack-ack

[Chalenge]

I'm sorry ack-ack I looked but there were no pictures available. And Wal-Mart is all out of picture cutouts about the Firefly also.