Isoroku Yamamoto, the Commander-in-Chief of the Combined Fleet

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Didn't watch it, but did they mention we found out where he was headed and when by cracking the code?

It sometimes sends shills up and down my spine to think what this world would be like, without knowing the plans like the allies did.

[GScholz]

The film is portrayed entirely from the Japanese point of view and they didn't know their codes had been compromised. There is a short scene were a communications officer is shocked that Yamamoto's schedule had been radioed to the base he was going to visit.

[Scherf]

Well, this is the thread where yon knowitall knee-jerk ingnoramus has finally caused me to use the ignore feature.



Ah, blessed peace.

[Plawranc]

I think that the Pacific war itself was more the United States's fault than the Japanese.

Tora Tora Tora is what gave me that view. The Japanese Leaders and German Leaders both had one thought at the time....

"WAR WITH THE USA... ARE YOU NUTS?"

The idea of attacking the USA back then let alone now is so insane and so blatantly foolhardy that it is bordering insanity. Yamamoto and Kuryibashi both had the same opinion. They spent time in America before the war and hence knew just how powerful the USA could be given the motivation.

Yet as with Pearl Harbor and 9/11 in more modern times. The USA's policies forced its enemies to act. Moving the Pacific Fleet to its forward base at Pearl, blocking exports to Japan and imposing a global oil embargo while mobilizing its armies in Guam and the Philippines. Japan could either allow the USA to make the first offensive move as it moved into Malaya to capture rubber and oil supplies from the British Colonies. But they could run out of fuel before they could complete the mission and be slaughtered by the US Navy. The only option left to them was to cripple the US fleet, to buy enough time for a rapid advance through Asia before the US could reorganize, and get to the bargaining table quickly enough holding my country Australia and the Republic of China hostage to secure their Empire.

9/11 was similar from Al Qaeda's point of view in the sense that the only way to fight the United States was to FORCE it to act with one crippling blow to get the US to engage them directly.

However in the end, the results for both were the same. You piss off the USA and its people, and it only ever has one ending.

[Karnak]

We're all ultimately responsible for our own actions.  That Japan had put itself in a position were its military government would lose face by having to withdraw from China if the US ceased selling Japan oil and scrap metal in no way places the burden of guilt on the United States for Japan's government, going against Japan's best interests, decision to attack us in order to preserve their own power.  The United States had every right to embargo war materials to Japan based on Japan's barbaric actions in China and if the Japanese government had actually had the interests of the Japanese people, rather than just those in power, in mind they would have withdrawn from China rather than suicidally attacked the United States.

[uptown]

Thanks for sharing 

[Plawranc]

Yes the USA did have every right. Was it the right course of action? Hindsight tells us no. But then again, making the right decision rarely ever equates to making the moral decision.

[Karnak]

Yes the USA did have every right. Was it the right course of action? Hindsight tells us no. But then again, making the right decision rarely ever equates to making the moral decision.

I disagree that it was not the right action.  Should we bow to barbarity because the aggressor will lash out?  Cower and allow ourselves to be used for evil?

I think not.  The blood of the Chinese, Koreans, Americans, Filipinos, Dutch, British, Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, Russians and, yes, Japanese civilians and soldiers killed in the Pacific and China-Burma-India theaters is all upon the hands of the Imperial Japanese government. No other government bears any of the blame for it.

[Plawranc]

The only case I see morality as the primary cause of a war and indeed the only truly justifiable war, was the war in Europe against the Nazi's.

Japan was just another empire doing what empires do. America itself is another one of those empires. Two large nations vying for power. There was the rape of Nangking and so on. Yes, they are crimes. However, the USA firebombed Tokyo and Nagoya resulting in 1 million civilian deaths. As well as 2 atomic weapons.

War is war. A violent resolution by which nations establish their will over others. The Japanese wished to build an Empire, in doing so they threatened the USA's Empire in the South Pacific. China being a republic and a trade partner of the USA's for a long time prior to the war, was under threat, the USA took action, provoking a war with the IJA and the IJN. Yes Japan struck the first blow, but they were protecting their interests as the USA's was protecting its.

I am cynical when it comes to history and wars... no war is ever fought unless something is gained, or your possessions/interests are under threat. The only exception would be the war against Germany 1939 to 45. That was an ideological war.


on topic however. The movie looks awesome.

[Slate]

I think that the Pacific war itself was more the United States's fault than the Japanese.

China being a republic and a trade partner of the USA's for a long time prior to the war, was under threat, the USA took action, provoking a war with the IJA and the IJN. Yes Japan struck the first blow, but they were protecting their interests as the USA's was protecting its.
 

    These two statements seem to be at odds with each other.   Many in the USA did not want to get involved in the war and Japans attack on the USA was a huge mistake. The USA is the only "Empire" that conquers territory and gives it back. Japan became a wealthy country with US help and protection. Japan could have avoided the Atomic Nightmare but it's evil leaders lead them to destruction just as the Third Reich's leaders did.

[Golfer]

Japan's actions toward China in the 30s don't earn them any sympathy from me for the trouble they caused themselves and Allied lives they cost in the 40s.

Ask the Chinese in Shanghi or Nanking if they felt the Japanese were being repressed and forced bury thousands up to their necks and run them over with trucks. Live bayonet practice. Beheading for sport. It gets worse. Much worse from there.

[ozrocker]

Again, curious that the British commandos 'killed'' their targets, but the Americans "assasinated" their's...interesting.

Why? What's difference besides terminology. End result - Dead. Dead is dead regardless.
Were the people killed at Pearl an Assasination? Seems would qualify as this, in this manner.
Looks like a good movie. Only part I thought "Oh No" was the Japanese "Soap" style music that started playing.

                                                                                                                               Oz

[GScholz]

Only part I thought "Oh No" was the Japanese "Soap" style music that started playing.

                                                                                                                               Oz

Fortunately it's only plying during the credits

[zack1234]

I am Japanese

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The only case I see morality as the primary cause of a war and indeed the only truly justifiable war, was the war in Europe against the Nazi's.

Japan was just another empire doing what empires do. America itself is another one of those empires. Two large nations vying for power. There was the rape of Nangking and so on. Yes, they are crimes. However, the USA firebombed Tokyo and Nagoya resulting in 1 million civilian deaths. As well as 2 atomic weapons.

War is war. A violent resolution by which nations establish their will over others. The Japanese wished to build an Empire, in doing so they threatened the USA's Empire in the South Pacific. China being a republic and a trade partner of the USA's for a long time prior to the war, was under threat, the USA took action, provoking a war with the IJA and the IJN. Yes Japan struck the first blow, but they were protecting their interests as the USA's was protecting its.

I am cynical when it comes to history and wars... no war is ever fought unless something is gained, or your possessions/interests are under threat. The only exception would be the war against Germany 1939 to 45. That was an ideological war.


on topic however. The movie looks awesome.

          


The Japanese were marching through the Pacific in a war of conquest. The U.S. merely initiated an embargo to stop or at least slow them. They were attacking China, as well as the British empire, and would soon turn their quest toward Australia. The Japanese decided that they had to break the embargo or give up their dreams of conquest, so they attacked the U.S. The U.S. was not practicing any such sort of conquest or expansionism at the time, and had not in years, the U.S. was still recovering from a crippling depression.

You're not cynical, you're just wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.