Author Topic: Auto Owners Beware!  (Read 1141 times)

Offline Hajo

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Auto Owners Beware!
« on: January 03, 2013, 06:57:02 PM »
E15 fuel.  3 States are using E15.  I suggest you watch this video.  Major auto manufacturers are voiding warranties for use of E15 in some instances!


http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

I'll have my fuel ethanol free thank you very much!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 07:04:49 PM by Hajo »
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 08:36:36 PM »
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Offline LCAMerciful

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 09:13:27 PM »
It's all a crock fueled by media exaggeration.  In all reality E15 won't hurt anything newer than 1990 and probably not even older cars.  There are more fallacies in that new story then I even care to mention right now.

Do you even know what E15 is?  It means 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline.  Most places are already selling E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and have done so for years with no ill effects - sans some old carbureted vehicles that still used rubber hoses and seals and even that was due to long term exposure to the alcohol and old parts in borderline condition.

As far as personal experience goes I ran a 50% mix of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline - so about E40 after blending it) for a couple of years in my 1995 Escort with no ill effect.  It ran fine, no fuel lines "rotted out", never broke down and always started right up.

E15 only has 5% more ethanol than what most places use now so I doubt it's going to cause any problems.  Yes a whole tank of E85 in a non flex-fuel car might make it run rough and/or a check engine light, but it shouldn't cause any long term damage.

No you car isn't going to stall or blow up nor are your fuel lines going to blow because you "accidentally" filled it up with E15.  It just doesn't work that way.

Offline Rondar

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 10:31:16 PM »
It's all a crock fueled by media exaggeration.  In all reality E15 won't hurt anything newer than 1990 and probably not even older cars.  There are more fallacies in that new story then I even care to mention right now.

Do you even know what E15 is?  It means 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline.  Most places are already selling E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and have done so for years with no ill effects - sans some old carbureted vehicles that still used rubber hoses and seals and even that was due to long term exposure to the alcohol and old parts in borderline condition.

As far as personal experience goes I ran a 50% mix of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline - so about E40 after blending it) for a couple of years in my 1995 Escort with no ill effect.  It ran fine, no fuel lines "rotted out", never broke down and always started right up.

E15 only has 5% more ethanol than what most places use now so I doubt it's going to cause any problems.  Yes a whole tank of E85 in a non flex-fuel car might make it run rough and/or a check engine light, but it shouldn't cause any long term damage.

No you car isn't going to stall or blow up nor are your fuel lines going to blow because you "accidentally" filled it up with E15.  It just doesn't work that way.


I'm not from fort myers, I'm from kansas, but I drive a bmw automobile, a 2008 328i.  Here is an excerpt from another forum I read.

To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers:

We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The following is a listing of "top tier" retailers:

QuikTrip Phillips Entec
Somerset Refinery Tri-Par Oil
Petro - Canada

Chevron Union 76 MFA Oil
Chevron - Canada Shell - Canada Sunoco - Canada

Conoco Shell
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star Aloha Petroleum Texaco

The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel.

Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E 10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is called phase separation. When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well.

Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially cornbusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves.

We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal.



Here is a link to the forum thread.  

I'm sure not gonna use 10 or 15% ethanol as there is plenty of fuel around me without it.


 
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1027358
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 10:34:36 PM by Rondar »
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Offline Hajo

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 10:33:07 PM »
It's all a crock fueled by media exaggeration.  In all reality E15 won't hurt anything newer than 1990 and probably not even older cars.  There are more fallacies in that new story then I even care to mention right now.

Do you even know what E15 is?  It means 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline.  Most places are already selling E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and have done so for years with no ill effects - sans some old carbureted vehicles that still used rubber hoses and seals and even that was due to long term exposure to the alcohol and old parts in borderline condition.

As far as personal experience goes I ran a 50% mix of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline - so about E40 after blending it) for a couple of years in my 1995 Escort with no ill effect.  It ran fine, no fuel lines "rotted out", never broke down and always started right up.

E15 only has 5% more ethanol than what most places use now so I doubt it's going to cause any problems.  Yes a whole tank of E85 in a non flex-fuel car might make it run rough and/or a check engine light, but it shouldn't cause any long term damage.

No you car isn't going to stall or blow up nor are your fuel lines going to blow because you "accidentally" filled it up with E15.  It just doesn't work that way.

The Major Auto Manufacturers tend to disagree with you.  If you watched the video (I hope you did)  It's the mixing at the pump that is the culprit.  The ethenol is settling at the bottom of the fuel tank causing a seperation of 84 octane gas and the ethanol.  This causes you to burn all ethanol, then a low octane gas neither of which is good for the car singularly.  In this case you are burning alcohol then a cheap low octane gas that causes detenation. (knocking)  Even the AAA says this is a severe problem.  
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Offline saggs

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 10:39:19 PM »
I disagree vehemently with the US ethanol fuel industry.


Unfortunately...  I can't get into that here.  (see rule #14)

What little I can say here is this.

1) Alcohol is NOT good for rubber seals or hoses, if you have a newer vehicle with buna, teflon or neoprene it's OK.

2) Ethanol has fewer BTUs per gallon then gasoline, meaning your fuel economy will drop.  Even though E10/E15 costs the same.

Lastly, for what it's worth Lycoming has put out a service bulletin warning against even E10 fuel in any of their piston engines STC'ed  for mogas.



The rest (and 90%) of my dislike for ethanol fuel is political though, sorry.  :bolt:







Offline rpm

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 11:18:28 PM »
There has been an ethanol notice on gas pumps here for quite a while, butI noticed a biodiesel warning on the pumps the last time I filled up with diesel in FtWorth. It hasn't made it out to the boonies just yet.  I always add Power Service to my fuel anyway, but now's the time to start if you don't.
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Offline Grayeagle

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 07:01:13 AM »
The note from BMW explains pretty thoroughly what the downfalls are and why it's dangerous to do it to your daily driver.

It *does* attack rubber ..it's why Holley carbs use steel float needles for alchohol carbs instead of those way cool rubber ones.. for one.
Any rubber in the fuel system subjected to alcohol, even E10 ..will deteriorate much faster ..and it doesn't go quietly into the night.
It comes apart in particles that clog everything.

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Offline Tilt

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 01:11:34 PM »
Its also quite unpopular with Ducati and Aprilia owners with plastic tanks.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 01:20:34 PM »
So basically what they're saying is that you shouldn't use E15 with cars that aren't designed to handle E15

Next story: the menace of diesel fuel pumps at gas stations

Offline smoe

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 01:31:12 PM »
I remember back around 1995 when the switch to E10 was happening. My 89 Ford Escort's fuel pump failed just after E10 was introduced.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 01:46:30 PM »
I remember back around 1995 when the switch to E10 was happening. My 89 Ford Escort's fuel pump failed just after E10 was introduced.

Your 89 Escort was not approved to use E10 in the first place. At least down here they continued to sell 99 oct E0 for many years before dumping it a couple years ago. Before that they sold leaded 99 oct also for a transitional period. Are you still driving the -89 car?
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Offline shppr01

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 01:47:56 PM »
I am not stating good or bad until ALL the facts come in and the general Populace give anything a try, but Here is what snopes .com says
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/e15.asp not trying to start an argument , just looking for facts!!
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Offline smoe

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Re: Auto Owners Beware!
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 02:28:24 PM »
Your 89 Escort was not approved to use E10 in the first place. At least down here they continued to sell 99 oct E0 for many years before dumping it a couple years ago. Before that they sold leaded 99 oct also for a transitional period. Are you still driving the -89 car?

Nope, I sold the 89 car a couple years after.