P-51 vs. Erroneous Perception

[Midway]

... cut for brevity...

This is where you make me    People keep offering you the opportunity and suggestions on how to acquire said skills (you'tre still lacking on the talent part) that will allow you to get your licks in on them with less sucking...

Ok, most of this seems well reasoned except your understatement of the double TOC winner's skills, but I understand you and I have different experiences and points of view on it.  I accept that.

Debrody flies with a mouse, so rudder pedal aren't why he too can do his "trick" on me 20 times in 2 days.  With Bruv, it is in fact skill, whether he has pedals or not.  I'm certain of that.

Shane, I have asked and been helped by many, but not you very much because you came across as too braggidy on ch200..."nice 8v1", "you castratti", "awesomesauce", etc when I know I have pwned you with substantial frequency as also evidenced with your frequent subsequent response of "meh".  Just being honest here.

There are two main reason I don't want to spend time with Bruv in the DA/TA, first, the cost (no more ch200) is too high, as I often feel the need to respond to inaccuracies presented regarding me on ch200 (or else I'd let these disparagements/inaccuracies gain credibility with my silence).  One must defend their honour, when required, or else appear dishonoured.  I also don't want Bruv to feel like I extorted help from him by my over-communicating on ch200 requiring him to come to the aid of the community.  Plus, on occasion, it's just fun to say a few words, you know.

Second, and much more importantly, I am not worthy to have the current most awesome pilot in Aces High teach me anything since I seem to have plateaued and have been incapable of learning more after hundreds of TA/DA sessions with Grizz, Pervert, Fester, and batfinkV, among others.  I don't want to waste their time or effort any more since I respect them way too much.  It would, frankly, embarrass me to do that... kind of like a high school Algebra I student sitting in Stanford's Differential Equations class pretending to understand what's being drawn on the board.  

I need to spend more time in purgatory attending the school of hard knocks   and have some light bulbs turn on before I would request or enthusiastically accept a sit down with the best.

In the words of a wise and well known gun fighting hero "A man's got to know his limitations."

[icepac]

LOL at mentioning rocky and expert in the same sentence.

High perch, dive, miss, engage warp, run away all the way back to friendly ack, turn around, engage warp, make HO, land.

[Shane]

Ok, most of this seems well reasoned except your understatement of the double TOC winner's skills, but I understand you and I have different experiences and points of view on it.  I accept that.

Shane, I have asked and been helped by many, but not you very much because you came across as too braggidy on ch200..."nice 8v1", "you castratti", "awesomesauce", etc when I know I have pwned you with substantial frequency as also evidenced with your frequent subsequent response of "meh".  Just being honest here.

There are two main reason I don't want to spend time with Bruv in the DA/TA, first, the cost (no more ch200) is too high, as I often feel the need to respond to inaccuracies presented regarding me on ch200 (or else I'd let these disparagements/inaccuracies gain credibility with my silence).  One must defend their honour, when required, or else appear dishonoured.  Plus, on occasion, it's just fun to say a few words, you know.

Second, and much more importantly, I am not worthy to have the current most awesome pilot in Aces High teach me anything since I seem to have plateaued and have been incapable of learning more after hundreds of TA/DA sessions with Grizz, Pervert, Fester, and batfinkV, among others.  I don't want to waste their time or effort any more since I respect them way too much.  It would, frankly, embarrass me to do that... kind of like a high school Algebra I student sitting in Stanford's differential equations class pretending to understand what's being drawn on the board.  

I need to spend more time in purgatory attending the school of hard knocks   and have some light bulbs turn on before I would request or enthusiastically accept a sit down with the best.

You underscore the point about my screening system very well.  

You're saying you've spent "hundreds of TA/DA sessions" with some very good sticks and yet came away with very little? That's honest.

Ok.  Peter Principle.  Stuck on suck. Or just maybe you didn't find the right teacher who could get thru to you?

<I never bothered with ToC or KoTH but beyond staying at a holiday inn express last night, I also particpated in one of the Duel Brackets and for a while the Duel Ladder in DFC. I think through my lenghthy experience with AH I have a good sense for where people fall on the bell curve.>

It's not the light bulb(s) you're needing. Your light is on, but the electrical impulses powering it are insufficient. You need to find someone who can install a dimmer switch and gradually bring you up to full wattage instead of hoping that you can turn a 25w into a 150w on your own. There are skillsets that are not directly related to 1 v 1 that do help in 1 v 1's, and vice-versa, and in teh absence of natural talent, skills are something you need to work on.

Or stay in your little box.

[Midway]

You underscore the point about my screening system very well.  

You're saying you've spent "hundreds of TA/DA sessions" with some very good sticks and yet came away with very little? That's honest.

Ok.  Peter Principle.  Stuck on suck. Or just maybe you didn't find the right teacher who could get thru to you?

<I never bothered with ToC or KoTH but beyond staying at a holiday inn express last night, I also particpated in one of the Duel Brackets and for a while the Duel Ladder in DFC. I think through my lenghthy experience with AH I have a good sense for where people fall on the bell curve.>

It's not the light bulb(s) you're needing. Your light is on, but the electrical impulses powering it are insufficient. You need to find someone who can install a dimmer switch and gradually bring you up to full wattage instead of hoping that you can turn a 25w into a 150w on your own. There are skillsets that are not directly related to 1 v 1 that do help in 1 v 1's, and vice-versa, and in teh absence of natural talent, skills are something you need to work on.

Or stay in your little box.

Given that I can down you quite often (you've admitted to 35%+) and if I were not to make my silly mistakes, I could likely increase that to 90%, how much, with all due respect, can you really teach me?  I know my mistakes with you because I know when I lose, why I lost.  Again, just being direct and honest with you, no disrespect intended.

With Bruv, Grizz, Pervert, Fester, Debrody, and, unfortunately, even Changeup, etc.. I don't know and can not comprehend, even when I'm told it's angles and E management, why I lose to them.  I am simply just confused afterwards and awed.


That is not the case with you.  I know why I lose.  I just need to not make my silly mistakes with you and pwnage would be complete with far more than substantial frequency.

Remember, we are nearly equal in Spifire MK IXs per --> your <-- analysis.

Again, just being open, honest, sincere, and direct.  Hopefully you can take it that way.  

[Shane]

Given that I can down you quite often (you've admitted to 35%+) and if I were not to make my silly mistakes, I could likely increase that to 90% of the time, how much, with all due respect, can you really teach me?  I know my mistakes with you because I know when I lose, why I lost.  Again, just being direct and honest with you, no disrespect intended.

Then you cannot claim or aspire to be considered a student. You have no idea of the things I might be able to pass along to you because you have put me in a little box, right next to yours.

With Bruv, Grizz, Pervert, Debrody, and, unfortunately, even Changeup, etc.. I don't know why and can not comprehend, even when I'm told it's angles and E management, why I lose to them.  I am simply just confused afterwards and awed.

I gave you clues in prior replies. Did you see them?  The mere fact I can take Bruv, Grizz etc from an equal footing should imply something, shouldn't it? Perhaps no one has shown you why *you* lost as opposed to why they won?

That is not the case with you.  I know why I lose.  I just need to not make my silly mistakes with you and pwnage would be complete with far more than substantial frequency.

You haven't even experienced a fraction of what I am capable of. Ask any one of those who can beat me on a more or less regular basis if I'm ever an easy kill. Why would I want to beat you down when I see a glimmer of promise? Somewhat like batfink, I elevate my game as my opponent rises. You started looking forwards to our encounters because you felt you had a chance, and indeed you did earn some of your kills, a substantial portion, even, if you want to look at it that way.

Again, just being open, honest, sincere, and direct.  Hopefully you can take it that way.  

Most repies in red/bold above.

I never take anything personally.  

[Midway]

Most repies in red/bold above.

I never take anything personally.  

To your three red comments.

(1) Your current skills causing you to lose to me often and consecutively have you in the box next to me.  Beat me 9 out of ten and I'll let you out.

(2) It should and does, that is true.  Problem is I can't comprehend it ... yet.

(3)  Agreed... I was not here when you were at your best.  I only saw you when you returned from, I suspect, the first to nearly the last day.  All very memorable indeed.

[Midway]

LOL at mentioning rocky and expert in the same sentence.

High perch, dive, miss, engage warp, run away all the way back to friendly ack, turn around, engage warp, make HO, land.

  

[Ripley]

Wow. This thread was hijacked sooo long ago.

Any P51 pilots that consistently dominate turny birds? No, likely not. The 51 just doesnt have the roll rate/turn radius to compete with an evenly matched pilot in a turny bird consistently, unless the 51 plays the E game and keeps the turny bird defensive by BNZing him, but that doesn't really constitute fighting a turny bird 'on their level' so I wouldn't count it.


People get lucky though, and some of those pilots are likely to be scrubs and not able to compete with a good 51 pilot who knows the ins and outs of ACM, so it happens. Good pilots will make mistakes too and it can happen then, but no I wouldn't say consistently.

I've had some great fights with spits and f4u's in my Pony. The best fight I have ever had in aces high was my Delta against an F4u-D just last month. The f4u caught me at a speed and alt disadvantage. It started with a bnz style of fighting and digressed into a fully flaps stall fight. Logic says at that point a pony will no doubt succumb to the f4u in a fully flapped stall fight, but in the end I managed to kill the F4u, that is after being pilot wounded and losing my rudder. BUT this pilot (afaik) wasn't a highly skilled F4u pilot. He knew his plane but I wouldnt call him an expert. Had it been I wouldn't have survived the encounter. no way.

And this month has just been utter crap for me. I feel like im dying every sortie to stupid things I could normally avoid.  Too long of a holiday break I guess   I swear they changed something with the pony in the last update  

[katanaso]

Wow. This thread was hijacked sooo long ago.

lol, no doubt.

I actually fought you shortly after another we communicated in another thread regarding 51's and turning, the one where I posted a film of a 51D vs a c202. 

Anyways, in our fight, I was in a 38, and you in a 51, and you handled the 51 well.

[Ripley]

lol, no doubt.

I actually fought you shortly after another we communicated in another thread regarding 51's and turning, the one where I posted a film of a 51D vs a c202. 

Anyways, in our fight, I was in a 38, and you in a 51, and you handled the 51 well.

Ah I didn't even realize it! You got the kill on me I see, I hope it was a good fight at least, I don't remember what happened. 

[uptown]

I hope Shane goes to the next canyon furball. I want to shoot him in the arse. 

[katanaso]

Ah I didn't even realize it! You got the kill on me I see, I hope it was a good fight at least, I don't remember what happened. 

Yep, it was a nice fight.  I had to work for the kill.  It was over a high alt base.  I remembered the fight because it was you, and it was literally within days after conversing in the other thread.   

[diaster]

This might be the biggest misconception in the game.

There is a good deal more to air combat than turning your airplane.

Eric Hartmann, of WWII Germany with the largest amount of kills, ever, said most of the guys he shot down didn't even know he was there. He fired so close that often his own plane was damaged from exploding debris. ACM - B n Z - Turn and Burn its matters not... its matters when you are still up and he is in the tower. My dad once told me, when you get in a fight, you have a choice... do you want to win or lose. After you make the choice to win, you use every tool in your toolbox to ensure that, never fight the other guys fight... make it yours and keep every advantage you can. The only kind of "ACM" that I feel are not valid are the "score hound",  "pick" and "run" types. IMHO

[Shuckins]

Well, I'm just getting back into the game, so I'm really rusty (Gyrthe).  But using the handle "Shuckins" I fought Shane and Levi in the MA and the DA, and watched them against multiple cons and they are no joke.   I fought Levi for the better part of an hour one night in the DA with the following results:  co-alt or e....he had me in two moves;  with alt advantage and superior e, he had me in three...or four if I was really on my toes.  It didn't matter what I flew.....I was owned quickly and surely.  There was never any doubt as to the outcome.

<S> to the both of them.

[Slade]

Enough sidebar jibber-jabba!    I'd like a BBS option to have an ACL (Access Control List) to inhibit those folk that take threads into personal ego-ville.  Not every thread is about you dude.  Please respect that (you know who I mean).

I am hijacking this email BACK to its orginal intent and purpose.

Summary
Wading through the emails on point, P-51s cannot and should not fight turny and short range fighters at their-own-game.  This is generally unwise for the P-51 even if the opponent dislikes your choice in tactics.  However, It is possible to take on those sort of fighters without BnZ tactics but must be done using the 51s unique strengths and a large dose of real ACM.

Thanks all for the very potent input to put this perception error to rest.