P-51b vs. P-51d

[Slade]

For you P-51 experts out there...

When does it make sense to take up a P-51b over a P-51d?

I am basically asking if the P-51b has any advantages over the P-51d.


Thanks for your advice,

Slade  

[Wildcat1]

I think the B has better low-alt, low-speed performance.

[mthrockmor]

The P51B is more maneuverable, less firepower. It is also a perk farmer compared to the PonyD.

[uptown]

The B model climbs a tad better above 10K and at 25K the B picks up speed until it tops out at 30K The D models speed will top out at around 25K. The D is faster then the B 20k to 25K. Because the B model has 2 less guns/ammo it's snappier then the D model. As Boo said, the B is a good perk farmer but you really need to be more precise in the B then D with your aim to get kills IMO.

[Chalenge]

The B model has the high altitude Merlin in it, which translates to limited power at low altitude. Below 12k the D is slightly faster as a result, but the difference is only 10-15 mph. The D model has a power dropoff between 16k and 19k which results in the B model having as much as a 20 mph advantage. From 19k to 26k the advantage is to the D model, but above that altitude the B is superior.

That information is only handy when fighting other ponies though. Against other targets the extra guns are much needed. If you have ever taken a D model up against a B17 you know that even six .50s take some effort to knock a bomber down.  Fighter versus fighter the B model should have the guns converged at closer ranges and then patience should be used to close with your target rather than spray at jinking fighters. At 50-100 yds four 50s will kill any fighter very quickly.

[SmokinLoon]

The B model has the high altitude Merlin in it, which translates to limited power at low altitude. Below 12k the D is slightly faster as a result, but the difference is only 10-15 mph. The D model has a power dropoff between 16k and 19k which results in the B model having as much as a 20 mph advantage. From 19k to 26k the advantage is to the D model, but above that altitude the B is superior.

That information is only handy when fighting other ponies though. Against other targets the extra guns are much needed. If you have ever taken a D model up against a B17 you know that even six .50s take some effort to knock a bomber down.  Fighter versus fighter the B model should have the guns converged at closer ranges and then patience should be used to close with your target rather than spray at jinking fighters. At 50-100 yds four 50s will kill any fighter very quickly.

This.

In my view, the B is a better plane to fly.  It has the speed and then some of the P51D especially up high.  However, with its quad .50's all that extra speed still means you need to saddle up and almost write off the snap shot kill for lack of punch.  I am a bit surprised it has the ENY that it does. 

[Triton28]

In my limited experience, the Bravo is MUCH faster up high (25K +).  In DGS II it was difficult to keep a mix of Delta's and Bravo's together.

I didn't mind flying the Bravo, and I'm sure it does turn slightly better, but I'd always fly the Delta unless I was trying to perk farm.  YMMV.

[cobia38]

 D runs more often then B

[bozon]

The B has a pretty RAF skin, the D doesn't.

[tunnelrat]

Bravo for fighting, Delta for bombing.

Bravo will also improve your accuracy if you fly it regularly.

Also:  Another bonus is that people will think you are Pand and blow every bit of E/SA/Advantage they have trying to kill you.

[Mister Fork]

I can't remember - does our Bravo have the Malcom hood?

[tunnelrat]

I can't remember - does our Bravo have the Malcom hood?

Yes!

Looks lame, but it's awesome for views!

[drgondog]

In real life there are two tangible benefits to the D, one to the B.

The D has better firepower, with guns that didn't frequently jam, and the D has better visibility.

The slight negative for the D is that the weight of the guns and extra ammo is about 370 pounds more than the B. So, for same Hp and boost at each altitude (which if late model B/C vs D is the same since they both had the 1650-7) the 51B will turn and climb very slightly better.

IIRC this group uses the P-51B with 1650-3 high altitude version of the Merlin which later morphed into the 1650-9 for the P-51H with the Bendix carburation and WI.

So, in this scenario the P-51B is faster above the Critical Altitude of the 1650-7 meaning above 24K.

On another forum I got entangled in this debate and went to both analytical models like Lednicer and exchanged emails with the guys that flew both in combat to add to the 40 years of asking the same question.  Without exception the P-51D was the Mustang of choice for combat ops because of the visibility (including the Malcolm Hood) and extra firepower.  In other words nobody said they turned the D down in preference to the B.

Take what you want and leave the rest.

BTW Lednicer showed that the B dveloped a stagnation pressure pocket at the base of the P-51B (and Spit I through IX) windscreen and on the aft top of the canopy wheres the P-51D windscreen and bubble canopy had no stagnation pressure pocket or separation on the canopy, presumablt because the D had more slope angle aft than the B and the Spits.

[Guppy35]

Off topic a bit.  Drgondog I thought I saw somewhere that volume I of your new 355th history is coming out soon.  Is that accurate?

[drgondog]

Schiffer sez Spring catalogue.. Our Might Always - Volume I - History of the 355th FG, TFW, FW.

This is WWII with serious anecdotes and statistics re; victories and losses for Vietnam out of Takhli.

About 460 pages of deathless prose plus 800 pics, 60 color side elevations.

Thanks for asking - it was a looong ride and much better than Angels Bulldogs and Dragons.  I was particularly pleased with gathering all the ETO (8th and 9th) Victory credits by USAAF Spit, P-38, P-47, P-51 and P-61 from 1942 through VE day on a quarter by quarter basis.

Thanks for asking

Bill