100kg bombs on City Strats

[Babalonian]

Originating from this thread in the Help and Training forum: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,344184.0.html

It is a real shame in my opinion, to a few specific aircraft which are also not seen in wide use ("hangar queens") or being used as much as possible in the arenas, that dropping 3x100kg bombs falls narrowly short of destroying an individual city block/tile at the strats.

I would like to request HTCs briefly study an alternative/adjustment to either the toughness of the target(s) or the potency of the munition (specificly 100kg bombs in this request, but also maybe the rest of the small "odd balls" like the 50/60kg and 100lb bombs) to give it an improoved attractiveness as a selection in the MAs for players.

This would also be benenficial, in my opinion, as new bombers may get added later down the road to AH with 100kg loadout options (specificly bombers not yet in the game but you can find requested/wished for being added by players occasionaly).

(PS - Sort of OT but I think very noteworthy for HTC to keep on its radar - "soon" might be a good time to add a round of wax/polish to the bombing aspect of this game.  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-developing-third-wwii-miniseries-413632  )

[SmokinLoon]

Currently it is 800+ lbs to destroy a city block.  If HTC lowers the requirement I hope they do not do it by much.  Have you seen how many 100 lbs and 250 lb bombs a B29 can carry????  The B17 can carry 24/100 lbs bombs.

I agree with you %100 that the smaller weight bombs get left behind in the equation.  I'm not exactly sure how to go about bring them back in to play, though. The 1 size fits all (312 lbs hardness for most OBJ) is not conducive to using small bombs, that is for sure. Why waste taking the small bombs when the larger bombs have a far larger splash radius and can destroy far more OBJ per bomb.     

[thndregg]

I've always run with 500# or 1K's on strat runs in B17's. I agree as well there needs to be some emphasis on practical use for a large amount of smaller bombs in a bomb bay.

[Karnak]

I believe that Babalonian is thinking of three 100kg bombs from a formation of Ki-67s or such.  Something that doesn't have the option to carry significant numbers of 500lb class weapons.  If three 100kg bombs would take out a city tile, then the Ki-67 would be useful for striking the city with a payload of eight 100kg bombs in each plane.

[Lusche]

I've always run with 500# or 1K's on strat runs in B17's. I agree as well there needs to be some emphasis on practical use for a large amount of smaller bombs in a bomb bay.

To some extend, there already is. The 250lbs loadout in the B-17 as well as the 250lbs and 100lbs loadouts in the B-29 are great for attacking the City. I take them a lot.

Only the 100kg (=220lbs) loadout in the Ki-67 falls just a tad short of destroying a city tile. Lowering the required damage from 844 to ~800 lbs would enable the Ki-67 to be more useful against the strats, while having no real impact on any other plane/loadout combination.

[tunnelrat]

Take the 15x50kg option, salvo 2, profit!

[Babalonian]

To some extend, there already is. The 250lbs loadout in the B-17 as well as the 250lbs and 100lbs loadouts in the B-29 are great for attacking the City. I take them a lot.

Only the 100kg (=220lbs) loadout in the Ki-67 falls just a tad short of destroying a city tile. Lowering the required damage from 844 to ~800 lbs would enable the Ki-67 to be more useful against the strats, while having no real impact on any other plane/loadout combination.

I wasn't specificly thinking of the Ki-67 in my wish, and I'd be shocked if it was the only plane that carried 100kg bombs.  I was thinking of the 100kgers because they come up so narrowly short of being effective, and an additional salvo would mean a great deal of waste - although necessary (and imho when you're in the mood to do strategic-by-the-numbers-bombing, unattractive).  In that same boat would be it's other and lesser "odd-ball" cousins the 50/60kg, and respects to the 100lbers too of cource...

If the Ki-67 could become that effecient at the strats though, I would certainly take it and try my hand.  I think a "better" one that would be more attractive at the job, assuming an adjustment were made and it also benefitted the 50/60kg options in the game, would be the current Ju-88 - 20x50kg bombs AND 250/500kg ers.  The Ju-88 wouldn't be all roses though, it doesnt have great range/mileage, so it wouldn't be viable always.  Then I'd probabley think about a Betty or Ki-67.

Edit - *light bulb* hey, if the 50kgers in the Ju88 became that useful for a city strat run, and you were facing range problems, why not just leave the block-busting 250/500kgers at home?  Better fuel economy AND speed....  I've NEVER considered a Ju-88 without the big-boys strapped on before.

[SmokinLoon]

Make it an official wish then!

HTC: We wish for you to reduce the hardness of a city block to 800 lbs from 844 lbs so the lighter bombs (100kg) can make a decent strategic impact.  Thanks!

[Lusche]

I wasn't specificly thinking of the Ki-67 in my wish, and I'd be shocked if it was the only plane that carried 100kg bombs.  I was thinking of the 100kgers because they come up so narrowly short of being effective, and an additional salvo would mean a great deal of waste - although necessary (and imho when you're in the mood to do strategic-by-the-numbers-bombing, unattractive).  In that same boat would be it's other and lesser "odd-ball" cousins the 50/60kg, and respects to the 100lbers too of cource...

If the Ki-67 could become that efficient at the strats though, I would certainly take it and try my hand.  I think a "better" one that would be more attractive at the job, assuming an adjustment were made and it also benefitted the 50/60kg options in the game, would be the current Ju-88 - 20x50kg bombs AND 250/500kg ers.  The Ju-88 wouldn't be all roses though, it doesnt have great range/mileage, so it wouldn't be viable always.  Then I'd probabley think about a Betty or Ki-67.

Edit - *light bulb* hey, if the 50kgers in the Ju88 became that useful for a city strat run, and you were facing range problems, why not just leave the block-busting 250/500kgers at home?  Better fuel economy AND speed....  I've NEVER considered a Ju-88 without the big-boys strapped on before.

The Ki-67 is indeed the only bomber in game carrying 100kg bombs, The G4M carries 60kg bombs.
And the 50kg bombs do work on strats. Two of them have a slightly higher damage value than one 100kg bomb, so with .salvo 2 you can get one city block per drop - in case of the Ki-67 that's 7 blocks, in case of the Ju-88 it's 10.

And I wouldn't necessarily leave the big bombs at home in the Ju 88, at least not in Late War. Even without them, the 88 is so slow and underarmed you are still easy prey - you have to hope nobody is upping for you in time, regardless if in 'light' or 'heavy' configuration.
It would be a different matter in EW, but then there is no 'strat play' in there anyway due to extremely low number of players. Almost all bases are sneaked or captured against little (if any) resistance.

[TheMercinary60]

would there be a way to just up the damage of those certain bombs by giving them a different description like they did with the armor piercing and such? that way the big bombers dont get the same benefit but it still gives the smaller guys some potency?

[SmokinLoon]

would there be a way to just up the damage of those certain bombs by giving them a different description like they did with the armor piercing and such? that way the big bombers dont get the same benefit but it still gives the smaller guys some potency?

It is far easier for HTC to change the hardness setting on an OBJ vs changing the damage ratios to the entire ordnance.  If they were to change the damage value of a single category of bombs they'd probably have to change them all.

Keep in mind that there are two "standards" to reference in terms of values.  First, everything is based off the 1000 lb bomb.  All ordnance is valued off that weight, including projectiles from .30 caliber, 20mm, 40mm, 88mm, and all calibers between.  Secondly, HTC has set up the base OBJ hardness at 312 lbs. The ammo bunker, the barracks, the fuel tanks, the town buildings, the radar, and factory buildings are all set to 312 lbs hardness.  Coincidentally, for the longest time the most common HE rounds from tanks (Pzr IV, T34/76, Panther, LVT-4), and the 5in HVAR rockets all do 156 lbs of damage.  Do the math.   In terms of "where" HTC begins their application of arbitrary values it is right *there*.

I'd like to see barracks, fuel tanks, ammo bunkers, the radar tower, and town buildings all have different values.  I'm not comprehending how it takes the same amount of ordnance to destroy a reinforced concrete ammo bunker and a plywood and tin built quonset hut barracks.       

[Lusche]

that way the big bombers dont get the same benefit but it still gives the smaller guys some potency?

The proposed slight reduction of required damage for the City tiles would not have any effect on big bombers. Only the 100kg bomb would be affected.

[Lusche]

I'm not comprehending how it takes the same amount of ordnance to destroy a reinforced concrete ammo bunker and a plywood and tin built quonset hut barracks.       

Maybe because it is not made out of reinforced concrete, but plywood as well?