Graduated damage

[Paladin3]

I was reading about the P51s used to fight over Japan late in the Second War and thought it would be much more realistic and a big immersion change to have damage be scalable. For example in one case a pilot noticed his oil pressure dropping. He did not get the big splatter but had to be in tune with his aircraft and monitor all those gauges that are in there. It would also give much more emphasis on the science of flying than the arcade feel that detracts some for players that want to depend on known variables in a sim.

[Tinkles]

I was reading about the P51s used to fight over Japan late in the Second War and thought it would be much more realistic and a big immersion change to have damage be scalable. For example in one case a pilot noticed his oil pressure dropping. He did not get the big splatter but had to be in tune with his aircraft and monitor all those gauges that are in there. It would also give much more emphasis on the science of flying than the arcade feel that detracts some for players that want to depend on known variables in a sim.

Shows I have alot to learn.. geez, thought you was talking about a more realistic take off/flying simulator.  I agree for Graduated damage.  I think the "all of nothing" aspect (as loon put it) isn't nearly as accurate as it should be.  33, 66, 100 would be best.  +1 to this idea


Respectively,

Tinkles

 

[SmokinLoon]

I agree it would certainly add immersion to the sim/game, but micro-managing your plane in the name of simulation can be a bit distracting.  Remember in WWII in many cases pilots would fly for hours and hours and not see a single enemy combatant.  If AH did that they would lose customers quickly I do believe.  There is a happy medium and I think HTC has done a good job for the most part.

One of the biggest things I'd like to see changed is allow for certain levels of damage in an aircraft.  Currently, the damage model accounts for "all or none". When an aileron gets damaged it appears as it is %100 gone though I'm sure in WWII there were various degrees in which something was damaged.  Why not have %33, %66, and %100 damage levels for control surfaces?  We've all seen the photos and videos of various planes missing pieces of a control surface yet the control surface is still operable.  The one I'm thinking of in particular is a B17 with a large part of its rudder blown away yet the rudder is still moving.  Another thing is the severity of damage done to the engine and engine components. When "oiled" does an engine always leak at the same rate? Why not have various rates in which the oil leaks out?  Same goes for radiator damage, does the leakage rate change if the radiator is pinged by a .30 cal bullet or a ripped apart  by a 30mm HE?  To be honest I have not timed anything to see if there is a difference, but going by the all or none damage to the control surfaces I'll assume engine components are the same.   

Obviously, this would be a huge endevour for HTC to undertake, but who knows maybe they have something already in the works.  If I'm not mistaken something was tested in the WWI server in regards to damage model?  I do like how the heads of the pilots move to where you as a player are looking.   

[tunnelrat]

+1 to this!

It would also be awesome if an oil hit in a Pony would cause the engine to die 30 minutes later, like the La-7.

[Devonai]

I'm with you on that part, Loon.  I would love to see graduated damage.  One of my favorite parts of the game is to be in the heat of a fight, to hear and feel the bang from damage (I love force feedback), and if death or a quick trip to the ground don't occur, to check my damage list and see how much trouble I'm in.

The decision to stay and fight or RTB adds to the immersion of the game, so graduated damage would be a benefit.  Parts that are damaged but still partially operable could be listed in yellow.  Heck, holed fuel tanks, radiator leaks, and oil leaks should already be listed in yellow, as they're only on their way to being useless, not all the way there yet.  Once your engine finally seizes up or your tank runs dry, then the damage is listed in red.

The same could be true for partially damaged control surfaces, for example.  If your aileron gets shredded but is still 50% effective, it's listed in yellow.  Furthermore, if you don't RTB but choose to stick out the fight, and pull too many Gs, then you can rip it off entirely.  Then it would sort of be like your aircraft saying "I told you so."

I'm also against micromanagement, but I don't see this system as being any more distracting than the current damage system.

[Pand]

+1 Gimme some

[DarkHawk]

+1 fly WW1 see how the damage model there works
DHawk

[Wiley]

Yes please.  Incremental damage would be a huge, huge addition to the game.  IMO it would be pretty much the single best thing they could add, other than permasquelch.

Wiley.

[Paladin3]

I take it one step further and don't use the damage list. I do a visual survey and feel the controls.

[ink]

Yes please.  Incremental damage would be a huge, huge addition to the game.  IMO it would be pretty much the single best thing they could add, other than permasquelch.

Wiley.

the reason for no perma squelch (you must have seen) if someone leaves and someone else takes the name...that new guy will be squelched.....

I can see why HTC does not do this.

[Wiley]

the reason for no perma squelch (you must have seen) if someone leaves and someone else takes the name...that new guy will be squelched.....

I can see why HTC does not do this.

Oh yeah, I know why it's not there, I just don't agree with that decision.

Wiley.

[ink]

Oh yeah, I know why it's not there, I just don't agree with that decision.

Wiley.

 



I knew you did

[colmbo]

missing pieces of a control surface yet the control surface is still operable.  The one I'm thinking of in particular is a B17 with a large part of its rudder blown away yet the rudder is still moving. 

The rudder on the B-17 has 3 or 4 hinges, control surfaces on many fighters will only have two hinges so something like your example would be less likely to have happened.

A friend was chasing a 262 with his Mustang.  After a screaming dive he had managed to close and gotten hits on the 262, he was pretty sure he would have gotten a kill except the lower hinge on his rudder failed, the rudder cocked over and flipped him inverted on the deck.  He said his attention was then focused on getting upright and getting home -- to heck wit the 262!!

[Hazard69]

The rudder on the B-17 has 3 or 4 hinges, control surfaces on many fighters will only have two hinges so something like your example would be less likely to have happened.

Agreed, but damage isn't always to the control linkages. A 50 cal punching a hole through the rudder or aileron, would make it less effective. The damage graduation would simulate that. Theres already a perset damage amount, which causes the control surface to be lost completely. Take %s of that and make the game calculate control surface forces based off that number (wouldn't be 100% accurate to real life but its a start). The same could be applied to wings. Too many holes in the left wingtip and it starts rolling left a little.

What I'd like to see more often are random engine malfunctions. Real life engines weren't (still aren't 100% reliable). For playability lets leave the probability of failure of a undamaged engine at 1%. So 99% of the time, the engine wont fail at take off or something. Now if the engine area takes damage (not necessarily an oil or radiator hit, just bullet holes) then increase that failure %. So if engine 2 is shot up (but not leaking), it might fail later, the longer you linger.

I wonder if the game currently allows for an engine failure from damage without the oil or radiator being damaged.

[Saxman]

What I'd like to see more often are random engine malfunctions. Real life engines weren't (still aren't 100% reliable).

No. You want people to leave? Then give them a chance that their plane just won't work even if they haven't taken damage. There's NOTHING that will piss off or frustrate a player more than their plane randomly crapping out for no good reason other than probability.