the most timid

[Reaper90]

My opinion on this thread and the direction it has taken is this :   I fight to the death just as INK states he does.  I may not fly directly into 30 red guys as he claims, but none the less i fight.  When I am in the MA i do not expect everyone to turn with me.  People have their own styles to flying.  If someone BnZs me or "picks" me it does aggravate me.  Still i am not going to blast them for doing so.  You shouldn't really sit here and argue the fact that some people sit at 30k and never fight.  It is pointless and you wont get anywhere with it.  Ignore it and move on. 

this.

[Vinkman]

I agree with this. I can't see anyone erecting as the community voice. Even the whole bbs is a biased point of view of those who we write here. I've even seen some posts here saying 1 vs 1 is not the only way, and I also think they can not representate the whole feeling of the community.

I only see a bunch of players expressing they are not satisfied about how the community is playing.....  

 

Edit: And another bunch of players saying there are others points of view.

Are you sure? I see a lot of people complaining in the MA and on the boards about excessive and habitual running. I see some people defending their right to play that way...not defending the play style. Very very few have actually defended it. Please do not confuse every extend, or every exit from combat as the same thing. Wiley summed up nicely that there are times to leave a fight. That is not what the OP was asking. He's asking which players make their entire strategy about never engaging a target that will engage them back. Such players exist. There is no evidence supporting the community being split their opinions about their play. You and FLS assume silence means players support them. Those that are vocal, are a statistical representation of both sides. So if more people vocalize displeasure for something, than support it, that is the best evidence of community stance on a subject. Assuming the contrary is fantasy.  

To Batfink,
Yes elitism is at the center of this for some, but not me. I do not think of myself as capable of playing a certain way because I'm better than those who chose to play another way. I am a sportsman. I have played organized, and un-organized team sports for over 40 years. I understand the value of sportsmanship on game quality. Poor sportsmanship, at its core, is not being able to handle losing. Fun, respect, civility, and quality game play all take a back seat to doing what ever it takes not to lose. The "Game" is lost and only an argument exsits to be settled. This is why there are two sayings...

Winning isn't everything...It's the only thing.

and

It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.

I've never believed Winning is everything.  And I've never respected those who do, and chose not to play with them when possible.

[Vinkman]

No its not.  You are not the entire community.  You are vinkman.

Yes it is. See above.

[ACE]

Yes it is. See above.

No.  Still YOU aren't the entire community.  Let people play how they want too..

[Kovel]

Are you sure? I see a lot of people complaining in the MA and on the boards about excessive and habitual running. I see some people defending their right to play that way...not defending the play style. Very very few have actually defended it. Please do not confuse every extend, or every exit from combat as the same thing. Wiley summed up nicely that there are times to leave a fight. That is not what the OP was asking. He's asking which players make their entire strategy about never engaging a target that will engage them back. Such players exist. There is no evidence supporting the community being split their opinions about their play. You and FLS assume silence means players support them. Those that are vocal, are a statistical representation of both sides. So if more people vocalize displeasure for something, than support it, that is the best evidence of community stance on a subject. Assuming the contrary is fantasy.  

Hey Vinkman. I've just read it completely. I don't agree. I see too many assumptions there for me. Please, use my post you are quoting as another answer to your own quote.

 

[Vinkman]

No.  Still YOU aren't the entire community.  Let people play how they want too..

I am stating the facts. In this thread the ratio of players mocking runners to supporting them is 17:9.  So the cummunity  (with best and only facts in evidence) is against this strategy by ~ 2:1.  

Hey Vinkman. I've just read it completely. I don't agree. I see too many assumptions there for me. Please, use my post you are quoting as another answer to your own quote.

 

No assumptions. See above. 

[Triton28]

He's asking which players make their entire strategy about never engaging a target that will engage them back. Such players exist.

Realism the the only answer.  Those seeking a realistic experience (in this case, not dying) are probably going to try to fly their planes 'as they did in the war', which we all know was more picks and afk kills than romantic, white knuckle dogfighting.  They're playing the game a different way.  A way that is in stark contrast to how others play.  Therein lies the conflict.

Personally, I use the scenarios for the 'immersion' aspect.  I'm all over the map in the MA.  Sometimes I'm flying super aggressive, flinging myself into absolutely stupid situations and other times I'm trying to fly 'smart'.  I really can understand both sides of it.

[Vinkman]

Realism the the only answer.  Those seeking a realistic experience (in this case, not dying) are probably going to try to fly their planes 'as they did in the war', which we all know was more picks and afk kills than romantic, white knuckle dogfighting.  They're playing the game a different way.  A way that is in stark contrast to how others play.  Therein lies the conflict.

Personally, I use the scenarios for the 'immersion' aspect.  I'm all over the map in the MA.  Sometimes I'm flying super aggressive, flinging myself into absolutely stupid situations and other times I'm trying to fly 'smart'.  I really can understand both sides of it.

Yes I've thought this might be a possible option as well. The idea that a player wants to emerse themselves in a real war scenario. But what happens here is so unlike the real war. I still think this would be time bound. Do it for a while, then move on to something else. I wouldn't begrudge a person doing this for a tour or a week or a day to have the experince, but they should realize they aren't adding to gameplay experience for others, and should not make it a perminent style of play.  

[Kovel]

I am stating the facts. In this thread the ratio of players mocking runners to supporting them is 17:9.  So the cummunity  (with best and only facts in evidence) is against this strategy by ~ 2:1.  

No assumptions. See above.  

Yes Vinkman. But if you start a thread saying that, for example, you don't feel comfortable about how noisy your neighbour is when you play and 5 guys say that they agree, you can't assume that 100% of the community thinks so.

Anyway, as I said....I can understand you are not comfortable with the comunity...and of course, you have all the rights to express it. But I hope you can understand as well that there are other people who thinks that there are more legs in the game .

[Triton28]

Do it for a while, then move on to something else. I wouldn't begrudge a person doing this for a tour or a week or a day to have the experince, but they should realize they aren't adding to gameplay experience for others, and should not make it a perminent style of play.  

While I don't understand how someone always plays the game the exact same way every day and doesn't get bored, I can't say I think it's the responsibility of one guy to change the way he plays just for the good of everyone else.  I think the onus is on each of us to find the type(s) of gameplay that float our boat.  Like ACE said, telling someone they're doing it wrong, even if there was an actual right and wrong, won't really do much. 

I do have a possible compromise though.  If everyone, at least one night a week, played the game piss drunk, there would be much more fighting.   

 

[tunnelrat]

Like any other multiplayer game (that vasts swathes of this community have never played, or at least not in recent memory - which is fine) there are ways to play certain classes.

Snipers aren't "timid" because they don't get right up in an assaultman's shotgun range... on the contrary, the ones that do are quickly shot in the face with said shotgun.

In THOSE games, instead of coming to the forum and attempting to disparage said "timid" snipers, one either grabs a sniper rifle, or sneaks up and knifes the crap out of them (which is far more awesome).

If you are tired of someone running from you, get in something faster or play smarter, etc... people want their happy meal THEIR way, right now, and when they don't get it they throw a fit on 200.

It's old.

Enjoy the entire plane set.  Enjoy Aces High.

[Halo46]

I am stating the facts. In this thread the ratio of players mocking runners to supporting them is 17:9.  So the cummunity  (with best and only facts in evidence) is against this strategy by ~ 2:1.  

No assumptions. See above. 

Your logic is as fallacious as your statistical analysis is wrong. You lack any facts at all. You are "assuming" that the majority of players are all vociferous blowhards like most who post in the BBS. Since the number of BBS members is only a small fraction of the player base, your argument falls through the floor, you have absolutely no idea what they think. Your 2:1 ratio is in no way a benchmark for those in the "do not judge others on their playing style" and those windbags who "want everyone to play their way" crowds. Not everyone who reads these threads post in them. Everything is nothing more than each persons personal perspective. Own your opinion, but stop before assuming your opinion is shared by anyone else, because you surely do not own mine. It really is funny if you look at which sides rhetoric includes calling others names and putting them down when most on the "other" side are not even really disagreeing with them, only pointing out how ridiculous they are. Sometimes kids think it's okay to be cruel online and that this is the social norm in online communities. Bullying involves a power play: trying to make someone else feel weak and helpless, while inflating the bullies own value. It is truly disturbing that adults act in this manner. Their lives must be in a shambles if they need to over compensate like this. It is funny how mad the bullies get when others start calling them names and picking on them for some perceived fault. Why do so many threads end in name calling and no tolerance of different point of views? It is shameful.

[Noir]

excuse me but I believe that skill can be measured by the amount of win you get

A fight's purpose is to decide who wins it, and it takes more than pretty ACM to win it.

take that bnz ki84 from earlier, trying to kill it at all cost is skill, ki84's have a weakness in a nose down fight. Giving up and accepting defeat because the nmy is a timid bnzer is just weak, if you're that skilled you should be able to exploit the choice of tactic.

I find skill in AH is a lot about being adapted, being able to switch from tnb to bnz in a blink, from offensive to defensive, to read what the opponent is thinking. Skill is not only engine control and pop them flaps.

[Wiley]

Yes I've thought this might be a possible option as well. The idea that a player wants to emerse themselves in a real war scenario. But what happens here is so unlike the real war. I still think this would be time bound. Do it for a while, then move on to something else. I wouldn't begrudge a person doing this for a tour or a week or a day to have the experince, but they should realize they aren't adding to gameplay experience for others, and should not make it a perminent style of play.  

'Real war scenario' is not precisely how they're looking at it though.  What is going on around them doesn't have to be anything like the real war.  I've known and flown with a couple guys who flew like this quite a bit moreso than me.  I'll never forget one guy I knew calling out a bandit 'on the deck', I looked at my altimeter and did some quick math...  this bandit on the deck was at 10k feet give or take.  We still ride him about that comment years later.

The basic idea is, survival is paramount.  You stack the deck against them, giving them as few possible avenues to retaliate as possible.  Most of the time, this is done with alt and a fast moving aircraft.  Occasionally with numbers, but most of the guys I've flown with weren't that keen on the gangbang unless a singleton dove into the middle of us.  Doubleteaming a singleton with wing tactics was a whole different matter.

That's the 'realism' they're talking about.  Doing everything in your power to give them as little chance to get you as possible, as though your life depended on it.  I fly on the more aggressive end of the conservative spectrum.  I'll go in after people in a crowd if I think I can get away with it.

I generally assume my opponents are trying to do the same to me as well.  I expect the ack run, I expect the run to friends.  I expect the guy with alt on me to come get me.

The way I look at it, never expecting a fair fight makes whatever they throw at me feel somewhat fair, if that makes some kind of sense?

Wiley.

[Debrody]

take that bnz ki84 from earlier, trying to kill it at all cost is skill, ki84's have a weakness in a nose down fight. Giving up and accepting defeat because the nmy is a timid bnzer is just weak, if you're that skilled you should be able to exploit the choice of tactic.

Exuse me, sir, ki84 vs mossie, are you kidding, right?
And nope, the nippon guys have no skill in my book.
Flying your planes ability is being effective. Pulling the impossible, beating the opponent in his own game, now that is is being skilled in my book.

What is skill btw?
-SA is, no doubt. Its natural, noone is expected to turn a Pony with a Spit, nor to fly in a 5v5 like it was an 1v1. Still, there is a difference being skillfully cautious and timid. When its an equal situation and your plane has all the advantages, but you still choose to run... now, thats being timid, in my terms.
-ACM is skill too. Its a straightforward way to decide where is my place amongst the other players.
-also there are other things like gunnery, communicating, planning, reading the map, etc etc, all being a part of being "skilled"