Author Topic: Rise of the Drones  (Read 1185 times)

Offline CAP1

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2013, 09:04:39 PM »
I'm not 100% up to speed on US laws, but as far as I know no one have any rights to privacy in a public place, like streets, roads, wilderness etc. However, if these drones start peeking into your living room...
or your back yard
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2013, 09:06:05 PM »
You certainly have certain aspects of privacy in public places. It is called "probably cause" and before a cop can infringe they must have a compelling reason. They cannot simply just walk up and demand, unless they do. And if challenged, and probably cause is not found than any evidence found is inadmissable in a court of law and any charges brought against the person must be dismissed.

This is the legal framework.

Probable cause, and that is only applicable if they want to search your personal property, like your home, car or person. As long as you're in a public place they can take as many pictures of you as they like and follow you wherever you go, right up to your doorstep. This is not limited to law enforcement... Anyone is free to take photos or conduct surveillance in public places; that's how the paparazzi make a living, and for the most part they're not breaking the law.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 09:08:13 PM by GScholz »
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Offline rpm

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2013, 04:26:11 AM »
or your back yard
If it's visible from the air it's fair game. Public domain.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2013, 08:36:30 AM »
If it's visible from the air it's fair game. Public domain.

 see? that's it though.........if you've got a privacy fence up, for....well......privacy, on your own property, then with this stuff, that privacy is taken away.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2013, 08:42:44 AM »
Then you'll need a privacy roof too.
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Offline jollyFE

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2013, 09:19:43 AM »
That show was pretty much Pred/Reaper centric, it was done very well, but was still fairly tightly focused; there's other UAVs out there.......I hate the label "drone".............UAV or RPA is more accurate.  I work with a UAV every day at my job (sensor operator), and I think folks are getting influenced a bit too much by Hollywood, which adds to the bad info...perhaps this is by design.  The acft I fly does everything, we just tell it what altitude to fly and what heading.  The computers figure out everything else, like flight control inputs and throttle setting.  As "smart" as they are, they are actually pretty dumb.  There isn't a way where it it would go rogue, if the acft loses link it either flies in a circle or flies it's way home on a pre planned, pre approved route.  As far as having them flying domestically, that's a whole different ball of string.  Some folks say it is an invasion of privacy, while others say if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.  All I know is that there are many laws and regulations governing "collecting" imagery here in the states.  Federal land is one thing, but looking in your neighbors window is another altogether.
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Offline COndor06

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2013, 10:17:11 AM »
We provide UAVs for Law Enforcement in the US. Ours are search and rescue systems. Not really a surveillance drone as they have limited flight times. 45 minutes up to 90 minutes depending on payload. We have some pretty cool video on our sight if you guys want to take a look.

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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2013, 02:42:02 PM »
Tomorrow I'll post some case law on the subject. There are clear limitations currently, and those limitations will grow. The law contemplated an officer walking the street and stumbling into something; the law also contemplated totalitarian actions by the "state" which resulted in The Bill of Rights. The big jump came with Al Capone and organized crime leading to RICO statutes. Really interesting legal history. Should an action be a crime without a victim?
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2013, 11:40:22 PM »
According to the reasoning of the 9th Circuit case Pineda-Moreno, the 9th Circuit apparently thinks the police, with or without reasonable suspicion, can follow your every move in public 24/7, even GPS track your car because you have no reasonable expectation of privacy wherever your car goes, outside a very private closed garage, etc. The 9th Circuit clearly implied exactly this, reasoning by analogy that since it was ever so clear to them under a prior case called Knotts that cops can follow someone anywhere on public roads and parking lots without any privacy invasion, then clearly, the court thought, a GPS device can be secretly installed in the driveway of someone's home (which driveway is unfenced) without even a modest requirement of reasonable suspicion - since there's no reasonable expectation of privacy in any publicly visible area. In a footnote the court said it could revisit if there were any massive violations in this area.

So, unless you live in a gated community of private roads, or have a Palin-style 14 foot fence, or in other words if you're rich enough, then you may have a tiny residue of home privacy left, but even in that case never outside the walls of your home or even inside your home if any of it can be seen in "open view" through windows, if your gated community and fencing isn't robust enough.


"{...}whereas in Knotts, as in this case, “{t}he substitute is for an activity, namely following a car on a public street, that is unequivocally not a search within the meaning of the amendment.” United States v. Garcia, 474 F.3d 994, 997 (7th Cir.2007). Pineda-Moreno makes no claim that the agents used the tracking devices to intrude into a constitutionally protected area. The only information the agents obtained from the tracking devices was a log of the locations where Pineda-Moreno's car traveled, information the agents could have obtained by following the car."

UNITED STATES v. PINEDA-MORENO, No. 08-30385, January 11, 2010 http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1497005.html
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Offline Russian

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2013, 12:27:37 AM »


I recently asked someone "very important" what the status of making sure the next generation of UAVs had a military standard pilot interface including an autopilot that wasn't designed to intentionally deviate from commanded altitude.  The answer was that the requirements for the next generation are not even developed yet.

Designed by an engineer for an engineer. I do not know a single pilot that likes that airframe. Oh and I hear next ones' interface is even worse...

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Rise of the Drones
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2013, 09:16:38 AM »
The discussion of law, is political.  Laws are made by politicians.  Any attempt to discuss the merits or points of any law, is by nature a political discussion.

It is not welcome on this board, per the forum posting rules.  It will get you suspended from the board.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:18:41 AM by Skuzzy »
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