Author Topic: This is a disgrace...  (Read 1015 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2013, 11:53:44 AM »
But youre not stating why the rules should be bent to allow for what you are arguing. How can you justify bending the rules when there are ,many that serve that are just as deserving. What would be the argument to vhange the rules and can the govt afford to change those rules, can the taxpayer?

I'm not saying the rules should be bent for this man. I'm saying, in my opinion, it is a disgrace how this man (and others like him) is being treated by your government/armed forces.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Nathan60

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 12:04:13 PM »
I'm not saying the rules should be bent for this man. I'm saying, in my opinion, it is a disgrace how this man (and others like him) is being treated by your government/armed forces.
HOw is that? The requirements are stated in fact. Are you advocating the requirements change?  What are you basing your opinion of changing the requirements on?
EDIT cleaned up the syntax a little
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 12:09:58 PM by Nathan60 »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 12:09:24 PM »
I read the article and have some serious problems with it. First off given the number of phonies that have cropped up I'm not entirely sure the "reporter" was actually speaking to a real live service member much less the guy who was actually in "seal team 6".  BTW the SEALS themselves refer to it by the proper military designation of DEVGRU. There are some significant discrepancies in the article.

First off. Everyone who has completed basic training is aware that the only way to reach retirement status in the military is to satisfy the basic requirement. You must serve a minimum of 20 years of "good" and active service. To think that a SEAL, especially an E7 16 year vet SEAL, does not know this little tid bit by heart is beyond belief. If they are disabled on active duty they will be given a disability retirement prior to the 20 year time limit. Nothing in the "article" says that the individual interviewed satisfied that requirement.

Secondly, when one does not re enlist you end your service time. Every enlisted man knows without a doubt when their enlistment contract is up and what happens to you when you fail to re enlist. If they. for some reason run afoul of the military and are given a bar to re enlistment, they are made painfully aware of that during the process whereupon they are given the bar to re enlistment. In short, they screwed up, not enough to be court marshaled but enough to insure they do not continue to screw up in the service. That means they do not get retirement benefits if the have not fulfilled the minimum requirements for same. The article hints that "shooter" had trouble with other team members lately. That hardly qualifies for separation from the service. If this guy really is one of the team members the Navy would bend over backwards to make sure he got his retirement including putting him in any number of positions outside of SEAL duty status. The Navy has absolutely no reason to dump on a stud like the folks who DID cap OBL. at the very least it would be bad press and they don't need any of that.

Military benefits are given to the members of the military and retirees. Not to folks who fail to complete the terms of the 20 year retirement. Again, everyone who completes basic has been made very aware of this issue.

Folks who achieve the status of veteran DO have access to the VA medical system. All you have to do is walk inside the nearest VA facility and sign up provided you can show you qualify. His DD-214 given to him upon leaving the service gives him that proof as does his records accessible by the VA. Nothing in the article says the person interviewed has any knowledge of that well known fact. I say well known because folks in the military, especially those qualifying vets separating from the service are told that bit of info. People who have been on active duty also know the medical system they are in is called TRICARE. It isn't referred to as "health insurance".

If this guy was sincere about wanting to protect his family the LAST thing he would do is leave the service. He had access to base housing, on a fairly secure facility wherever he would be transferred in the US. If really necessary they would pull strings to get him a new identity to help secure his families safety. When you quit you don't have that option.

Frankly given the author of the article is also responsible for some rather far left leaning pieces and a book, I have serious doubts about anything he writes in regards to the military.

Check out his blog and read up on some of the info. It is by a real military person and the site works to expose military phonies. The blog is title, This ain't hell, but you can see it from here.
http://thisainthell.us/blog/ 
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 12:20:09 PM »
He thought if he got out early, he'd make a butt load of cash off of his story when he wrote the book.  The NDA he signed however when he was discharged pretty much ruined his plans of writing a book and cashing in.

ack-ack
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Offline GScholz

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 12:21:05 PM »
My opinion is based on that article; if the article is factually wrong/fraudulent then my opinion is also wrong.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 12:29:45 PM »
My opinion is based on that article; if the article is factually wrong/fraudulent then my opinion is also wrong.

The Esquire article fails to mention that the SEAL does have free medical insurance through the VA for 5 years, something the SEAL should have known when he left the service.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline Nathan60

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2013, 12:33:10 PM »
My opinion is based on that article; if the article is factually wrong/fraudulent then my opinion is also wrong.
Lets say it wasnt.  You dont want to make an exception so then you would have to change the requirements, right? How do you think all the new people that meet the requirements  would effect things?
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2013, 12:36:53 PM »
I guess I'm just used to a different reward system for national service.

Again... do you know much how the US military works?  How the benefits work once service is done?  How much time needs to be served in order to achieve %100 retirement, etc. Dig a bit and learn the system before you so hastily bark about wrong doing.  No one will disagree with you about what the SEAL went though.  However, it is %100 volunteer and he chose to get out when he did.  No worry though, now that he has gone public someone will pay him a nice fee for his story.  There is a reason he went public and people like you are falling hook, line, and sinker for it all.   ;)
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Nathan60

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2013, 12:39:11 PM »
I think someone fishing but the fish are getting smarter.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 12:41:08 PM by Nathan60 »
HamHawk
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FSO--JG54
CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep

Offline GScholz

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2013, 12:40:19 PM »
All I know is that even 1-year conscripts over here are eligible for welfare while looking for work after they've left the service. I know you guys have a limited welfare system too that is based on how many years you've worked; does a soldier's years in service count towards this welfare? If it doesn't don't you think it should?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Nathan60

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2013, 12:42:26 PM »
All I know is that even 1-year conscripts over here are eligible for welfare while looking for work after they've left the service. I know you guys have a limited welfare system too that is based on how many years you've worked; does a soldier's years in service count towards this welfare? If it doesn't don't you think it should?
I think usually you need children to get welfare. Rigth now I would guess we have as many people unemployed as you have in total population, also we are a little more technologically evolved. We can't just go out and shoot a narwal to stock the fridge.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2013, 12:50:21 PM »
That's an interesting opinion, even if it is erroneous.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Nathan60

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2013, 12:54:27 PM »
That's an interesting opinion, even if it is erroneous.
You dont really back your statments up with much explination you know.so in return:

OH yeah? Well, nuh-uh.
HamHawk
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CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep

Offline VonMessa

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 12:56:45 PM »
That's an interesting opinion, even if it is erroneous.

Don't let him kid you.

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Offline GScholz

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Re: This is a disgrace...
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2013, 12:58:09 PM »
It's a digression. If you start your own thread on "technological evolved countries and whale hunting" I'll be happy to comment in more detail.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."