He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!

[Arlo]

Funny, if the attitude bothers you why didnt you check yours at the door?

I gave you advice. You're not winning this thread.  

I did miss your answer to a reasonable question, though.

[gyrene81]

Hehe, yeah, asking for aircraft that saw service in WW2 is unreasonable, right?   

Well now!  Suddenly you talk for everyone else?!?!? 

I was only agreeing with Karnak in that people with little knowledge of WW2 would consider such planes as iconic when the fact is they played a significant role only at the beginning since they were obsolescent if not already obsolete.  But whatever makes you happy man, if you think they were the cutting edge of the LW in WW2, fine.  There are worst things to fantasize about I guess.

i speak for the "clueless" people who view one iconic piece of history as important as the next...who do you speak for? for you, "iconic" appears to equal "useful", which is an erroneous association. there were quite a few planes that you would not consider useful but they ended up being used to great success by someone and they became iconic aircraft.

[Oldman731]

I was only agreeing with Karnak in that people with little knowledge of WW2 would consider such planes as iconic when the fact is they played a significant role only at the beginning since they were obsolescent if not already obsolete.  But whatever makes you happy man, if you think they were the cutting edge of the LW in WW2, fine.  There are worst things to fantasize about I guess.

You have a remarkable ability to read minds, combined with an overconfidence in your own knowledge.  No one said the 111 was cutting edge; the comment was simply that it was "iconic," in a way that the Ju88 was not.  Reasonable people can differ on this; my own view is that the Stuka is probably the most "iconic" of German bombers.  While the 88 may have served longer into the war than the 111, the Luftwaffe simply did not field waves of bombers after 1942.  The 111 and 88 both served during the only time that the Luftwaffe had an appreciable offensive bomber force.  Films and photos of the time, at least in my experience, featured the 111 more than the 88; people exposed to these images might consider the 111 as "iconic."

- oldman

[Karnak]

Want a RAF parallel? 

It is as if the RAF had the Manchester or Halifax added first, and then the "iconic" Wellington, and no Lancaster...  A lineup of early war bombers with no middle or late war aircraft.

Oh, and then Do-17z is as iconic as the Whitley.  The what?

Exactly.

Erm, you're responding to the guy (me) who has probably advocated the Wellington's addition to AH more than anybody else.  The Wellington is one of the biggest missing holes in the British planeset and was a major contributor to the British war effort in the air through 1943 at the least.  The first 1000 plane raid was mostly Wellingtons.

I don't think the Manchester is a good idea for AH for the same reasons the He177A-1 isn't a good idea.  Halifax isn't a good idea because its capabilities and performance are so extremely similar to the Lancaster that I consider it a waste of developer effort to add it.

Whitley and Do-17Z?  Well, maybe someday, but I don't think either should be added soon.  Nor Hampden or Blenheim.  The B5N2 is actually a surprisingly good stand in for the Battle.

In terms of land based bombers I would probably rank them something like thus in priority:

1) Tu-2
2) SM.79-II
3) Wellington B.Mk III (others advocate for the B.Mk X)
4) Do217E/Ju188A/He177A-5 (pick one)
5) Il-4
6) B-25J
7) Mosquito B.Mk IV
8) and beyond: whatever.

3 and 4 were hard to rank, but what decided it was my recollection of facing Hurricane Mk Is and Boston Mk IIIs while flying the Bf109E-4 in a Norway scenario.  The damned Boston Mk IIIs ran me down and forced me to turn allowing the Hurricane Mk Is to catch up when I was trying to egress after expending my ammo.  The fact is that the Boston Mk III's performance is so high it is nearly impossible to intercept in 1940 and 1941 Axis fighters whereas the 250mph Wellington would be very interceptable, but tough enough, armed enough and carrying enough to make the RAF player have a shot at accomplishing something as well.

[Brooke]

For me, priority of bombers is:

B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)

[Franz Von Werra]

2- Threads should remain on topic, do not "hijack" topics.

111 with troops please!

[Tank-Ace]

2- Threads should remain on topic, do not "hijack" topics.

111 with troops please!

No. Thank you for your time, and have a nice day  .

[Arlo]

For me, priority of bombers is:

B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)

Bomb-Jockey. 

[Volron]

For me, priority of bombers is:

B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)

Yes please!

[jag88]

I gave you advice. You're not winning this thread.  

I did miss your answer to a reasonable question, though.

Had you taken your own advice I would have given you a reasonable answer, but in the context of your answer that was not pointless.

i speak for the "clueless" people who view one iconic piece of history as important as the next...who do you speak for? for you, "iconic" appears to equal "useful", which is an erroneous association. there were quite a few planes that you would not consider useful but they ended up being used to great success by someone and they became iconic aircraft.

Heh, that is the difference, I only speak for myself and do not pretend to speak for others while accusing other people of doing the same.  That level of "reasoning" is likely also steared you towards conjuring some imaginary confusion, better luck next time.

You have a remarkable ability to read minds, combined with an overconfidence in your own knowledge.  No one said the 111 was cutting edge; the comment was simply that it was "iconic," in a way that the Ju88 was not.  Reasonable people can differ on this; my own view is that the Stuka is probably the most "iconic" of German bombers.  While the 88 may have served longer into the war than the 111, the Luftwaffe simply did not field waves of bombers after 1942.  The 111 and 88 both served during the only time that the Luftwaffe had an appreciable offensive bomber force.  Films and photos of the time, at least in my experience, featured the 111 more than the 88; people exposed to these images might consider the 111 as "iconic."

- oldman

So, same point as Karnak, people with little knowledge of the war would consider the He-111 as the iconic bomber, I agree, only ignorance or lack of knowledge can drive you to such conclusion when the Ju-88 was produced in three times the number while seeing front line service in far more roles until the very end of the war.

As to the fielding of German bombers the Soviets would likely disagree, and we could mention Steinbock just for fun where Ju-88/188s made the backbone of the bombing force.

And I agree Re the Stuka, even if its vulnerability forbade its use in the west, it kept on fighting in the east to the point that the last LW aircraft shown in a WW2 German newsreel shows a G attacking Russian tanks in Prussia.

[Arlo]

Had you taken your own advice I would have given you a reasonable answer, but in the context of your answer that was not pointless.

You were already in blind-swing hissy mode versus the thread when I got your attention.
Now that I have it you're focused but still just mad.

So, once again, the mid or late Luft-bomber you would have rather seen modeled and why? 

(Or was that never really part of your argument, after-all?) 

[jag88]

You were already in blind-swing hissy mode versus the thread when I got your attention.
Now that I have it you're focused but still just mad.

So, once again, the mid or late Luft-bomber you would have rather seen modeled and why?  

(Or was that never really part of your argument, after-all?)  

Oh, I see, so I responded something to someone else and you felt included... I cant help you there

No, it was never part of the argument BECAUSE THE HE-111 IS ALREADY HERE and there is no point in arguing any aircraft vs He-111 at this point.  In any case, in the whishlist section I detailed the reasons and data supporting the inclusion of the He-177, including a scan of the LW performance data for the aircraft.  The Do.217 would also be an improvement with its higher speed, slightly better offensive/defensive capabilities and speed while not competing with the Ju-88 to retain its TB mission.  I could repeat the data here but why bother, HT wont model a German bomber shortly after introducing a He-111, which is why its introduction was rather annoying.

My point here was infusing some life in the He-111 by adding a para option, nothing revolutionary or game breaking, just a means to fill a hole and improve the return on the time and effort investing in modelling the hangar queen.

[Brooke]

I was very happy for the introduction of the He 111.  It's a mainstay of the Battle of Britain, which is a major scenario event.  My main interest in the addition of planes is for special events, where there have been gaps, but HTC is doing a great job filling them (B-25, P-39, G4M, Ki-43, He 111, and Yak 7b in recent years).  Also, the extra variants of P-40's and Hurricane II's is nice.

Top of my list in order of priority including fighters is:

Yak-1 or LaGG-3 (For Eastern Front mid-war, where there is otherwise large gap for Soviets; Yak-1 was more produced)
B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)

[jag88]

Erm, you're responding to the guy (me) who has probably advocated the Wellington's addition to AH more than anybody else.  The Wellington is one of the biggest missing holes in the British planeset and was a major contributor to the British war effort in the air through 1943 at the least.  The first 1000 plane raid was mostly Wellingtons.

Excellent!

Since the mid-war Lanc is already in game the early war Wellington would be a great addition, with the German side on the other hand there are now 2 early war bombers and a perk one, see the difference?

I don't think the Manchester is a good idea for AH for the same reasons the He177A-1 isn't a good idea.  Halifax isn't a good idea because its capabilities and performance are so extremely similar to the Lancaster that I consider it a waste of developer effort to add it.

I agree, partially.  The Manchester worked in the end and could have served but the Lanc was already a better option, I was just pointing out that adding it would just put more early birds when there are holes in the lineup...

Whitley and Do-17Z?  Well, maybe someday, but I don't think either should be added soon.  Nor Hampden or Blenheim.  The B5N2 is actually a surprisingly good stand in for the Battle.

Very low priority

In terms of land based bombers I would probably rank them something like thus in priority:

1) Tu-2
2) SM.79-II
3) Wellington B.Mk III (others advocate for the B.Mk X)
4) Do217E/Ju188A/He177A-5 (pick one)
5) Il-4
6) B-25J
7) Mosquito B.Mk IV
8) and beyond: whatever.

3 and 4 were hard to rank, but what decided it was my recollection of facing Hurricane Mk Is and Boston Mk IIIs while flying the Bf109E-4 in a Norway scenario.  The damned Boston Mk IIIs ran me down and forced me to turn allowing the Hurricane Mk Is to catch up when I was trying to egress after expending my ammo.  The fact is that the Boston Mk III's performance is so high it is nearly impossible to intercept in 1940 and 1941 Axis fighters whereas the 250mph Wellington would be very interceptable, but tough enough, armed enough and carrying enough to make the RAF player have a shot at accomplishing something as well.

I more or less agree with your list with one caveat, the LW still has no mid/late war bomber, a Do-217M (or a Ju-188, but it would kill the Ju-88 as a TB adn we already have a Junkers) would have fixed that nicely with the He-177 entering later on since its entrance would likely kill the usage of the midwar LW bomber.  Which is why I found the He-111 so annoying, its introduction will delay the implementation of ANY LW bomber for a good while.  Sure, it adds to the variety of aircraft in scenarios, but unless you are playing Guernica the Ju-88 was there and fits the bill, the speed issue in scenarios should be addressed by limiting bomber formations to cruise speed and not max speed.

[macleod01]

He-111 is my favourite plane. I love her with that big glass nose and the massive wings. I was really annoyed when I first played AH (An old offline copy of AH1 that my uncle gave me) and I could fly a 88 but not a 111. i even ended up trying IL2 simply for that plane. Every time we got a new addition I was disappointed that it was not the 111. Then when it made it onto the front page, I was over the moon!

I am one of those people that think that the 111 is one of the most Iconic planes of WW2. P-51, Spitfire, Lancaster, B-17, 111, Stuka are all the top planes people think of when the topic of WW2 planes is raised. Jees, just go and do a google search for Luftwaffe planes and one of the first images is a 111. So much for not Iconic. Maybe not the most useful, but most iconic.

I have been a massive advocator for the addition of the 111. I don't play very much but when I do I will almost always do at lease one 111 run against a target. My squaddies had a good laugh at me when I asked about the best loadout for range, they asked why and I said I was going to the enemy strats (Which had retreated) with my 111's. I made it, lost both drones, but landed back at home with a kill as well.

You say that HTC won't add another german bomber so soon. Well, they have to add one country! I'm sure we have had recent spells where the US has had 2 planes added one after another, I see no reason why the Luftwaffe can not be in the same position. But I do feel that a dedicated LW transport is now needed. We should have to choose between the quicker, unarmed C-47 or the slower, armed JU-52.

As has been said many times before, the 111 was added to fill a gap in the Scenario planeset. You yourself said it was the backbone of the early LW. So how come in the early scenarios we didn't have it? it filled a gap, even though it was always going to be hanger queen. But some people like the challenges that an EW plane has in the LW. If HT are only going to now add planes that won't be hanger queens, I'm going to leave this game as soon as they make that announcement. My favourite rides are the 111, 109E, Spit1 and Hurri 1. They don't give me an option to experiment with anymore EW planes, then my fun is gone.

To be honest though, I would probably have supported your wish if it wasn't for the fact that you have come across as such a tool. You clearly have some issues and have been irrational to anyone making a response. Next time you come up with a good wish, leave the attitude at the door and people might support it.