Side balancing

[Lusche]

I'm not underestimating anything, although I never saw 1600 on as it sounds like you're suggesting.

No, I'm not.

[muzik]

No, I'm not.

Then, I do remember just a couple of occasions seeing over 700 on. I was thrilled at the thought of all the fights to be had. Which is why the split disgusted me so much.

[Lusche]

Common sense would suggest that they split the arena's in the first place because the population was ALREADY GROWING and leading to what I am told were "cesspool" conditions which of course you don't have now that numbers are low.  :rolleyes:p. etc, etc.

Well, the "cesspool" claim was always made by players, I never saw any such being made by HTC.

And yes, numbers were growing before the split, but after the split this growth rapidly increased. That's what I saw (and still can see) from the numbers available. And only because of that I have no reason fundamentally doubt HTC's statement that after the split the share of players actually subscribing after their two weeks went up significantly. The numbers do nothing but support it.
And when you change one element (Arena setup) and suddenly have a higher rate of trials willing to start paying, it seems to be a success. No matter how much it sucked to me individually


Rember, I fought against the caps as long as they were there. Towards the end of the original 2 LW setup, I canceled my account because I could not longer justify paying to stand in front  LWO 150/100  LWB 20/150 at my own prime time.

[muzik]

Well, the "cesspool" claim was always made by players, I never saw any such being made by HTC.

And yes, numbers were growing before the split, but after the split this growth rapidly increased. That's what I saw (and still can see) from the numbers available. And only because of that I have no reason fundamentally doubt HTC's statement that after the split the share of players actually subscribing after their two weeks went up significantly. The numbers do nothing but support it.
And when you change one element (Arena setup) and suddenly have a higher rate of trials willing to start paying, it seems to be a success. No matter how much it sucked to me individually


Rember, I fought against the caps as long as they were there. Towards the end of the original 2 LW setup, I canceled my account because I could not longer justify paying to stand in front  LWO 150/100  LWB 20/150 at my own prime time.

I was making a general comment, not pointing fingers or questioning your stance. You already stated that you were not in support of them. I'm questioning how you can say that the numbers support the assumption that the split had anything to do with the growth. Without question they do not. They had a ONE TIME increase in subscriptions that coincided with split arenas and you agreed they were already growing. That is called coincidence until proven again and again.

People weren't joining in droves when the pre growth averages were in the 500 hundred range, how can you say the split was driving growth when the peak during the split was 500/500 or more? It makes no sense.

PC ownership and high speed internet sales hit a gold strike proportion during those years. Don't you think that is the most likely the cause of such an incredible jump?

[Lusche]

People weren't joining in droves when the pre growth averages were in the 500 hundred range, how can you say the split was driving growth when the peak during the split was 500/500 or more? It makes no sense.

I read that several times, but still don't understand what you are saying.  

PC ownership and high speed internet sales hit a gold strike proportion during those years. Don't you think that is the most likely the cause of such an incredible jump?

Of course I think there are many more reasons to it. As well as reasons for the decline.

My main point was not that the Arena Split was a golden thing. I was basically arguing (and may have failed to point that out in my later posts) that it was not a "failed" experiment in HT's eyes. After the split happened numbers went up faster and reach an all time high, and only several years after it the numbers fell off.
That doesn't prove the amount of positive impact on AH (from a strict HTC point of view), but IMHO it shows that it was not a "fail" in that regard and had no direct negative effect (again on the game as general, not for every player individually)

[Karnak]

Too many people in one arena makes it very hard for new players to join the community.  The text buffer flows so fast and is so cluttered that, even without pranks and insults, it becomes a serious barrier to participation and hence an issue to player retention.

That would be my guess at least.

[zack1234]

Two many players make it hard for new players?

The game is hard to pick up for the first time what ever the arena settings are.

The Horde is nothing, move to another base and don't participate in dealing with them.

Losing a base is nothing, If Jokers Jokers come in at 21k in P51s I come in at 25k in my Typhoon and have a awesome time trying to find Joker

I have a star now so i am fantastic

[muzik]

I read that several times, but still don't understand what you are saying.  


Of course I think there are many more reasons to it. As well as reasons for the decline.

My main point was not that the Arena Split was a golden thing. I was basically arguing (and may have failed to point that out in my later posts) that it was not a "failed" experiment in HT's eyes. After the split happened numbers went up faster and reach an all time high, and only several years after it the numbers fell off.
That doesn't prove the amount of positive impact on AH (from a strict HTC point of view), but IMHO it shows that it was not a "fail" in that regard and had no direct negative effect (again on the game as general, not for every player individually)

But it did have a direct negative effect. Some of us missed out on several good years of playing in a 1000 player arena!  Not to mention the ridiculous arena changes and all of the other complaints I know you remember.

You pointed it out just fine and I already knew Ht's take on it.

This is a dead horse and I am only stating it this last time to perhaps clarify.

Pre growth during 2003/4?
MA peak = 500 +/-

Growth starts prior to split and is ongoing.
MA peak = 800? +/-

Split occurs while Hitech is standing next to his tv antenna. Nielson ratings hit the roof and subscriptions increase.
MA peak = 500/500 +/-

Why didn't they split into three arenas if the split had such a dramatic effect then they would have had more growth right?

[DaCoon]

I have been a paying subcriber under various game IDs since July of '07 and I very well remember a 20-30 min wait to get in either LWA a few years ago. Sometimes only to be booted after being in-flight for about 10-15 min due to excessive #s.  Then maybe hit the TA or the DA for a bit til I could hopefully get in to the arena my squaddies were in.  Now a pilot can fly LWA any time day or night, no problem. As far as "cess pool", that claim has been made, in my experience, mostly by those with little to no ACM and no desire to get w/ a trainer so they get PO'd and quit.     

[muzik]

Too many people in one arena makes it very hard for new players to join the community.  The text buffer flows so fast and is so cluttered that, even without pranks and insults, it becomes a serious barrier to participation and hence an issue to player retention.

That would be my guess at least.

Then they could have split the communications up instead of the people  

As often happens, there is no use some idiots stinking up 200 when they are on complete opposites of the map. 200 could have been divided up in more manageable zones like range is.

[Karnak]

Then they could have split the communications up instead of the people  

As often happens, there is no use some idiots stinking up 200 when they are on complete opposites of the map. 200 could have been divided up in more manageable zones like range is.

There are reasons for the global communication though.

[Lusche]

But it did have a direct negative effect. Some of us missed out on several good years of playing in a 1000 player arena!  Not to mention the ridiculous arena changes and all of the other complaints I know you remember.

That's why I explicitely stated "not individually". Changes may suck and even severly impact some individuals ability to have fun (almost all major changes cause a number of ppl to quit because of it) while still having an overall positive effect on HTC's business. One more example was the revamp of the GV modeling - many individual complains, including claims "you are driving away all GV guys" while the GV usage immediately went up.

Why didn't they split into three arenas if the split had such a dramatic effect then they would have had more growth right?

Actually they did split it into four arenas - EW. MW, and 2xLW.

And yes, they actually expected (or hoped for) all arenas seeing a lot of use, and that squads would select certain arenas to make them "their home"
Now THAT didn't work out at all, when LWO became the "place to be"

And why only 2 LW and not 3? They might have reasoned that there's both a "too much" as well as "too little". Unfortunately for you and me our opinion on how many players in one arena is fun and HTC's opinion on that difffered... a lot.

[muzik]

Actually they did split it into four arenas - EW. MW, and 2xLW.

You know what I meant. I can tell by the toejam eating grin.

Unfortunately for you and me our opinion on how many players in one arena is fun and HTC's opinion on that difffered... a lot.

I hate it when you're right.

There are reasons for the global communication though.

None that would change the game if the open channel was restricted to half or thirds of the map instead of the whole map. You should be able to throw a compliment or a grenade at the guy on the other side of the front line, not the other side of the world.

[Karnak]

None that would change the game if the open channel was restricted to half or thirds of the map instead of the whole map. You should be able to throw a compliment or a grenade at the guy on the other side of the front line, not the other side of the world.

And talking with your countrymates?

[The Fugitive]

they will never do anything to limit the offensive capacity of the horde

most people that play AH care only about 'winning the war', and would say that winning by overwhelming your opponents with numerical superiority is both a perfectly valid and a perfectly realistic tactic

Fugitive you always talk about the number of customers that HTC would lose if the game was made to look better and therefore required a better computer to run - do you not think that HTC would lose just as many, if not more, if they suddenly made it much more difficult/impossible for the hundreds of really bad players to achieve anything by taking away the offensive capacity of the horde? ;o

I don't always talk about losing people to better graphics, I am just repeating what has been said and what would be logically true. HTC does a great job at making it so a wide variety of computers can run the game. If they didn't how many "laptops" do you think would just up and leave? Players can adapt, even when they have no extra money to spend. Making it harder isn't going to stop them, but it will force them into looking for other ways to do the same thing.

No, I meant players as in the defenders. Any way you can think of to give them a chance at stopping the horde, or at least slowing it down?

It's not worth their wile to defend in most cases. NOE's are spotted just in time to either up there and get vulched a bunch until all the hangers are down, or to up for the next field over to only get there just in time for their ACK to open up on you as you spot the goon that you now realize has already dropped.

If a mission comes in with alt... rare, but it does happen   You can try to up and get high enough to defend, but your never going to get the numbers together quick enough. So you end up at a reasonable alt with 5-10 vs 1 depending on the size of the force hitting you. You get that one attack period, because even should you kill 5 and run like a little girl to land your kills the base is captured long before you can get back.

How to make it worth wile to defend? I don't know whats "possible", but use what people are after now. Name in lights, perks. Say the Bish are stopped from taking bases from the Rooks for an hour. Arena message "SYSTEM MESSAGE: Rooks hold off thieving Bishops!! Perk Points Awarded!" and give everyone on the rooks 10 perks. Acknowledgement and perks, just like winning the war. Not as many, but do it 4 hours running and you get the same as winning the war. Maybe hold both front for an hour you get 20.

Your never going to be able to get it down to "individual" awards because I don't think it would be easy to track that "So-and-so" defend A22 against an attack and is awarded X amount of perks. It would be nice, but getting a team award seems to work for the "attack" side of things, maybe it could work on the defense side of things too.