Wish for the AvA

[bustr]

If it is possible as a custom option for the CM's in the AvA Arena.

Can the resolution, clarity or contrast of dots and con silhouettes from 6000 in be made adjustabel by the CM to make seeing them at distance and against the ground more akin to real life for no Icon play at max setting? Or can an individual slider be included for each player client that at max setting all dots and silhouettes stand out clearly?

The downside would be the CM's interpretation of how much clairity he wants to give to players versus the ability to hide in the clutter, grey skys and low light conditions if it's a backend tool. If it's a player side tool possibly FPS hits in the MA around large numbers of furballing cons. From experience in real world flying and the game, I don't beleive AH has been optimised for no Icon combat reducing the AvA to a small cadre of hard core fans.

If this adjustment is possible, foot traffic may increase to the AvA becasue more players can see each other to fight.

[jimson]

Thanks bustr. We do appreciate those who have an interest in improving the AvA.

I don't really have any opinion with your wish but here is what I can tell you about the AvA.

As long as I have been here it has always had a very small population regardless of what the icon settings were.

In March of 2010 after suggestions from Raven, Jaeger turned off enemy icons.

This created a lot of new excitement and AvA began to see a lot more action and we got a lot of new AvA fans. You can go to the forum and read all about it starting on page 35.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284901.msg3607313.html#msg3607313

After some time, during the slow summer months around Jun of 2011, some folks began to think that the settings had run their course and there were also many purse fights on the board about the icon settings and the decision was made to turn them back on

Well, the biggest instigators of the purse fights about the no icon settings on the board certainly didn't flock to the arena. Most of them never showed up at all. In fact, we lost a lot of AvA players and the population dropped if anything.

After several months with the icon settings on, some of the staffers wanted to run their setups with enemy icons off again and we decided to run an invitation survey. We went through the stats and compiled names of about 100 players that had flown in the arena, that we could match up with bbs handles or had some other way of contacting them.

We chose from months that we had enemy icons off and months that we had enemy icons on. We expected a pretty close vote. I expected icons on to win.

It wasn't even close. There were a few who chose all icons off and a few who chose all icons on, but the over whelming majority chose some form of enemy icons off and friendly icons on. The only real difference was the distances at which they wanted friendly icons to appear.

It certainly wasn't scientific, but we did get opinions from those that had flown there, not from the ones arguing on the board who may or may not ever fly in there and we chose them from icon and no icon times in the arena.

None of us are really that dedicated to any particular setting. If we thought turning them back on would fill the arena we certainly would do that, but we didn't see that when we tried it, and having no enemy icons off and friendly icons on gives a different experience that many people like, even if it is not necessarily a more realistic experience.

I suppose we could do another survey, but we aren't going to change everything for people who just scream real loudly (not implying that you are one of those) but won't even bother to show up after we do what they want, and that's about what happened last time.

[bustr]

Rent a ride in a small plane and specificly ask to be able to see other planes in the circuit from a few miles outside of the circuit. From an airliner at 25k you can look down on roads and see cars in motion. You can look 10k below from your window and see single engined craft go by. Out to 5 miles easily on clear days from your window you can spot other aircraft. My father was a multi engine commercial instructor and I had 200 hours by the time I was 16. I've flown in everything from gliders, tigermoths, dragon rapides, cessnas, pipers, barons, beech18 and on to T28. I restored an Aeronca Champ to pay for college.

The dots and silhouettes are not designed to stand out with the purpose of flying this sim without icons. I ventur it's to make the game playable across a broad spectrum of PC and laptops allowing the Icon to be the equaliser. It makes the AvA a place where the guy who can fly the lowest to the ground is the superior figter pilot everytime I've played in there with no icons. You gents also purpose setup the ground and sky to make it worse.

BSing in passing on range randomly over time and listening to conversations. No icons is why you don't get foot traffic becasue most players can't see anything until it's too late. And they don't like that the ground and sky appears to be rigged to help hide the low resolution dots and silhouettes requiring them to change their MA graphics settings. Players will agree to anything when they are polled if it has a possibilty of a different "FUN" experience in the game. If it don't work out, they vote with their feet never saying anthing because they are chasing fun that they have shelled out $14.95 a month for. You have made it too much trouble in the AvA for them to chase fun around for a few hours with their freinds.

For $14.95 a month were is all the foot traffic in this game? Some where besides the AvA where they can see each other even if they aren't a muppet. They at least beleive they have a chance becasue of that big red sign. And aren't being insulted with a sales pitch telling them they are wimps for wanting to see the guy shooting them for their $14.95 a month.

You want foot traffic, people gotta see each other if they are paying their hard earned money to have fun. It's logical to see if HiTech is willing to do something about the dot and silhouette contrast if you guys are determined to play hide and peek in that arena as it's primary selling point.

[jimson]

Well, I've tried to tell you that Raven isn't on staff anymore.

We have a former military and current commercial pilot who flies only in AvA, we have a private pilot who flies only in AvA. A while back, we invited a squad in whose CO is a commercial pilot and he and they were very disappointed that we had enemy icons turned ON.

I can flat out tell you that if we turn the icons all on now, it won't make a damn bit of difference in the population there, except we will likely lose many of the regulars we have without gaining any new ones. I know this as we have done it. In fact we have tried nearly every possible setting in there.

It's pretty easy to think you know what will work and fill the arena when you haven't actually been there trying to do it for years.

Thanks for your suggestions and I am sure staff has seen it and if a majority decides you are correct, then they can turn the icons back on.

As far as HTC changing something, well, we shall see, but they almost never intervene or do any development
specifically for the AvA but only for the game as a whole or the MA specifically.

[manglex1]

IMO the reason the AvA arena isn't filled up is because there is a lack of people that fly. People would rather rhe MA where a fight is guaranteed. It's the reason I haven't gone yet even though it seems like one of the best arenas in the game. It's a vicious cycle.

[jimson]

IMO the reason the AvA arena isn't filled up is because there is a lack of people that fly. People would rather rhe MA where a fight is guaranteed. It's the reason I haven't gone yet even though it seems like one of the best arenas in the game. It's a vicious cycle.

This is only part of it because it has to start somewhere.

First of all, people's favorite planes are not always available.

Secondly, the LW is known as the "main arena" The "main arena" has to be the place to be right?

Third, we cannot really use any of the incentives that the MA has. If we have a Battle of Britain setup we can't very well make any use of having perk points with which to purchase a 262 or something.

Fourth, we cannot have a win the war dynamic, because the map and country rotation is random.

We are unable to designate what maps and country setup the arena will rotate to next and it will rotate to an unplayable mess, and with no use for perk points, there is no reward for rolling the map over.

Fifth, because we recreate specific scenarios, some historical, some "what if",  base capture isn't always the appropriate goal but it is the only objective the game structure allows for.

Sixth, we do not and will never have any sort of event logging so we cannot score things based on our weekly setup rotation.

We are somewhat stuck in no mans land between a main type arena and an event type arena without the tools to do a good job running it in either style.

After you take in account all these things and many others, then you can add the reverse snowball effect of no one going in there because they never see anyone in there.

[manglex1]

Those are all good points. Maybe if there was some incentive added like perk points then more people would play. Have you guys already tried that?

[jimson]

There is no way to really use them. We don't have the ability to set perks to different aircraft. So only the currently perked aircraft could be purchased.

There would be no point in running a 1939-40 Battle of Britain setup if some people get to fly around in late war, jets or tempests etc.

[pangea]

I used to be a regular on the AvA years ago.  I no longer fly there because of the no icons.  I know  many people like it and thats OK, just not for me.  My $0.02. 

[manglex1]

There is no way to really use them. We don't have the ability to set perks to different aircraft. So only the currently perked aircraft could be purchased.

There would be no point in running a 1939-40 Battle of Britain setup if some people get to fly around in late war, jets or tempests etc.

Then maybe if you got control from hitech on the cost of certain planes in the AvA then you can still have perked planes without needing them to be the 262 or any of the other planes.

[jimson]

Then maybe if you got control from hitech on the cost of certain planes in the AvA then you can still have perked planes without needing them to be the 262 or any of the other planes.

Countless times we have asked for many different changes. Problem is that they require major rewrite of code on both the client and server side. HTC makes their own decisions on where the direction of their efforts should be dedicated. It's their business and who am I to say what is worthwhile for them to pursue? I can only post suggestions and hope they read them and consider them

I also wish to dispute some false implications. Nothing is being done to give any favored subgroup some sort of advantage.

You gents also purpose setup the ground and sky to make it worse.

The settings are the same for everyone.

If anything, it's easier to pick out a dot against a grey sky than a bright blue one. This has been my experience and something I've heard from others many times.

Whether custom ground textures make it more difficult than the standard ones I don't really know, but that is not the reason they are used.

Everything is done for simply one reason, to give people something different than they see in the other arenas.

Given all the limitations mentioned in the posts above, simply loading a limited, country specific planeset isn't enough to draw in a lot of people.

I have been involved here for several years now. I have also studied the history and read nearly everyone of the 215 pages of old threads dating back to the time when AvA was called the CT.

The AvA has pretty much always basically had a small cadre of hardcore fans. We occasionally can bring more folks in by expending a large amount of effort to do something special on one night. There were times in the past where the AvA community was larger, but this all changed long before anyone started playing with icon settings. The overall AH player base seems to be declining a bit as well.

Barring the unknown effect of major changes and new features that are added to the game over time, it will always pretty much be this way.

There is no magic bullet. Hundreds of people have tried to find one and failed.

The one thing that was close was the no enemy icon setting. That increased excitement and attendance for quite some time.

That excitement didn't last forever, but there are many who don't believe that changing it back yet again will help either.

I personally have moved toward content creation for the AvA. That to me, is the best way to give people a unique experience in the arena.

[Krusty]

Making dots bigger doesn't solve the visibility problem. At 6k yards you'd be able to see basic shape, possible heading, direction, and if it was approaching or not. At 6K in Aces High it's just a dot. It remains just a dot until much much much closer. Even at higher resolutions it's just a dot.

It's just the way the game renders planes. You can't change it. This won't solve "flying blind" levels of visibility without icons, either.

Forget about no-icons. YOu cannot EVER make it as realistic as real-world vision. EVER. I guarantee that.

[Nr_RaVeN]

If it sucked so bad then .....
Why do NO ICONS ROCK LEARN MORE HERE

I don't have have one of these so called visibility issues... I don't view flying icons as flying legally blind at all.... At one time I did. I made the exact arguments that you opponents do.
  I was as sure I was right. I said the exact same things your saying. That was before I actually took the time to dedicate myself to mastering No icons and actually learned the many new cues to spot cons in a no icon environment. Much like a blind person relies more on a sense of touch or smell. One needs to adapt to an environment that is absent of icons.

 The biggest cue of many......LOOK FOR MOVEMENT against the terrain the rest will fall into place eventually.

With no Icons your actually HUNT your opponent... you become more in tune and focused your aim and concentration are intensified all this translates into a far more immerse fast passed and intense sim experience..

All it takes is a willingness to persevere and learn something new.

 There is nothing realistic about any of this. its a cartoon... Its about adrenaline and excitement. If no icons is not your thing that's ok if you don't want to take the time that's OK too but don't knock it or dos folks for enjoying it.  Often times pepole mock what they don't truly understand. To each there own.. live and let live.......LEARN MORE HERE

 

[Nathan60]

I  have been inthe AVA with a higher end machine and alower end machine and I can tell you that the idea that changing settings makes finding a dot easier is  laughable.  If you're going to lose sight of someoine its going to happen. if you took the icons away in the ma same thing will happen with the settings in there, you are confusing keeping sight of the icon in the MA with keeping sight of the actual plane. You probabnly dont even know what color the con infront of you is , your just shooting at the big red icon.

[jimson]

Yeah, no way can you see on a screen what you can see in RL. Icons compensate for some of that. Some folks would rather give up that visibility to get away from seeing the big red icons, some folks wouldn't.

In AvA, friendly icons are on so it's not difficult to distinguish friend from foe. It's one heck of a lot harder on the IL2 servers with no icons at all, but still, that was all the rage there.

To each his own. I've said my peace. I'm not going to debate this anymore. I don't control what goes on anywhere.

I'm going to concentrate on building cool stuff.