Me-410 option without tailgun assembly

[Torquila]

- I wish for a loadout/gun package which leaves out the tailgun system. With bombers flying on average at 30k over strats, the 410 really needs the ability to lose a bit of weight.

[Karnak]

Was there a non-field modified version of the Me410 without the tail guns?

If so, this would be a nice addition.  If not, welp, sorry but gotta suck it up and deal with it.

[Torquila]

I am :_(

[morfiend]

Was there a non-field modified version of the Me410 without the tail guns?

If so, this would be a nice addition.  If not, welp, sorry but gotta suck it up and deal with it.

  Yes there was,there was also a limited amount of single seaters made.



   

[Krusty]

It wasn't just removing the guns. The guns were a large system that took up most of the room in the tail. Not to mention the rear gunner that operated them, the armor for that gunner, the glass armor for that gunner to look through, etc.

On the handful (some 30 or so?) planes that were modified to have no tail guns they not only removed them but also removed the rear gunner, the rear seat, the rear windows, and faired the fuselage up to replace the "wings" that the gunner would aim out of left or right. They also did this to save weight for a high-alt boost system that was relatively unsuccessful and very heavy.

It would NOT make the 410 we have any better a dogfighter, as the weight would still be there (just from non-gun components). I personally think our 410 flight model is off, but I don't think it'll be updated for many years to come.


P.S. Because of all those changes, it couldn't be a hangar option. It would need to be an entirely new hangar selection. A subvariant.

[Torquila]

I am not looking for a dogfighter but I would like it if I could catch bombers a little easier

"It would need to be an entirely new hangar selection" :_(

[Krusty]

The problem isn't catching bombers, really, but that bombers fly too fast in here. For ANY plane chasing them.


P.S. If you're of a mind to fire off your "BBs" to save weight and gain high alt performance, take the MG17 (7mm) option in the hangar. Why? Because those 7mm guns weigh a lot less than the 13mm guns, even after you drop the ammo. Some folks enjoy dumping the aft ammo, but I've had some on-again, off-again luck saving my butt by using them. I hesitate to dump them, but do on occasion. If you really want to save weight, mind the guns package you choose. The Mk103s are super effective, but heavier than the 4x20mm in total. Also, don't take WGrs... They're fun, but slow you down like a drag chute. You can load our Me410 out for high alt hunting, you just have to be careful about how you do it.

[Megalodon]

  Yes there was,there was also a limited amount of single seaters made.



   

 Yes

II/ZG26 on their b-1s

[Chalenge]

The problem isn't catching bombers, really, but that bombers fly too fast in here. For ANY plane chasing them.

I don't understand. Isn't this relative since all airplanes fly under the same rules?

[SmokinLoon]

This is very similar to those bananas who dump all their Bf 110 rear gunner ammo thinking "it will turn better".   

Suck it up cupcake. The Me410 is fast, just dont try to turn too much, climb in a hurry, and dont get intercepted by fighters.  There is a reason the Me410 were quickly brought down from chasing bombers to dealing with Soviet ground forces on the Eastern Front.  If by chance you do get your chance nothing in AH can compare to the devastation a Me410 can bring to bear on a set of bombers. Patience and due diligence is key when using a Me410 to hunt bombers.  You need to have time.  You need to take lots of fuel, and you NEED to be at the desired altitude.  Also remember that the me410 is NOT a high altitude bomber hunter/interceptor.  It really starts to such air after 25k.

[Karnak]

I don't understand. Isn't this relative since all airplanes fly under the same rules?

No, because pursuing fighters did not fly on max cruise settings.  Escorting and patrolling fighters did, true, but not the fighters actively intercepting inbound bombers or the fighters defending those bombers.  Intercepts would have been flown at 30 minute settings until combat was actively joined, perhaps throttled back to cruise settings for a period if you reached position with time to spare.

A squadron of twelve Hurricane Mk Is climbing into a cloud of He111s and Bf109s was not doing so on their max cruise setting.

Those He111s, on the other hand, stayed in cruise settings even as the Bf109s, Hurricanes and Spitfires flashed by them at MIL and even WEP power settings.


As to the "BBs", I've had my .303s save my bacon on multiple occasions in the Mossie.  Several La-7s and one Bf110 have fallen to them, among others.

The Bf110 was an accident though, I actually had 700 rounds of 20mm when I attacked it, I just didn't have my cannons selected.  The Lancaster formation I did that to was much less impressed than the Bf110 had been though.

[bozon]

- I wish for a loadout/gun package which leaves out the tailgun system. With bombers flying on average at 30k over strats, the 410 really needs the ability to lose a bit of weight.

It wasn't just removing the guns. The guns were a large system that took up most of the room in the tail. Not to mention the rear gunner that operated them, the armor for that gunner, the glass armor for that gunner to look through, etc.

This is how it should have been designed in the first place. I have yet to find any evidence that a rear gunner in any plane could not have been replaced by a sack of potatoes. A rear gunner in a plane that is supposed to maneuver that is - from SBDs to Me110s.

Removing all that stuff must have saved quite a lot of weight. I would be happy to know what it did for performance. If I makes any real difference I am all for adding such a variant.

As to the "BBs", I've had my .303s save my bacon on multiple occasions in the Mossie.  Several La-7s and one Bf110 have fallen to them, among others.

My aim is not good enough to land all the 303s on the same wing section and therefore it takes hundreds and hundreds of peas to shoot anything down with it. It is a lot of fun though. Took me nearly the entire 303 Mossie loadout to kill an A20, which I was hosing for several continuous seconds. The most satisfying was to kill a 109K4 with the Boston III fixed pea shooters after loosing the drones (another useless gunners example). It didn't break apart or anything - either ran out of fuel due to fuel leaks or a pilot wound.

[Karnak]

My aim is not good enough to land all the 303s on the same wing section and therefore it takes hundreds and hundreds of peas to shoot anything down with it.

On the Bf110 I got I drilled its #2 engine with .303s the whole way in and the wing separated just before I had to break off.

The La-7s and other single engined fighters tended to be death by a thousand cuts, or even the other guy stalling it and hitting the ground after I'd been peppering him for a good bit.

It is usually only viable in a one on one fight as it takes too long and you end up being picked if there are a lot of aircraft around.  The Bf110 was in a big furball, but as noted I got him in one pass.

[save]

My conclusion is that buffs fly too fast in formation in AH, and that's need to be changed, to reflect Real Life, specially in scenarios, maybe with the addition of having 4 drones instead of 2, and with max effective shooting range of 1k instead of 1.5k, again in scenarios.

In here 300mph buffs formations with capability of incapacitating attacking fighters 1.5k out  are of a more rule than exception, if the pilot is a good gunner.

Its almost impossible to re enact the multiple attacks that happened in BOB, or US bomber attacks  in here the way it did happened.

[Torquila]

Hey guys, the current bomber ecosystem is a totally different topic...

pls don't hijack :_(

I simply am trying to adapt the situation to provide more chances for the 410 to do its work. I love the tailgun and how effective it is; truely. I don't see the need to poo poo it like you guys do, there are plenty of victims of my tail gun who can attest to it and there would be plenty more if it actually shot straight.

The 410 is just as capable as the mosquito dogfighting if you have a split throttle and a liking of 25% and dts,  I might go as far to say thar with a decent tail gunner, even more so.

But lets discuss the possible repecussions of such a configuration (without tail gunner) would actually have on the top speed, range and max altitude it might reach to find some substanciation of such a concept (even if it only be in our minds: Apparently it doesn't matter to HTC ).