An interesting fix for high alt, high speed bombers

[EskimoJoe]

Krusty in another thread brought up a point that I've come across every so often, and that is 'bombers fly too fast for ANY plane'. For the sake of historical accuracy, could we not have autopilot override the throttle to a limited, closer to realistic setting? Granted yes, this game isn't entirely about realism, but would it be worth implementing or would it simply be a huge bomber nerf?

I believe that if this were designed and implemented, that it might make bomber-hunting (particularly in scenario settings) easier in aircraft that would have been able to have greater success in real life than we do in this game.

Of course, the key is to find a fair balance. Limiting throttle with auto-pilot at X altitude in a bomber, we may have to implement similar across all aircraft, which defeats the purpose entirely. How could we do this in a way that won't make high-altitude bombers the sitting ducks they are at lower altitudes?

Discuss.

[Karnak]

I don't think it is good, as things stand, to limit bombers in the MA.  They are mostly helpless against fighters with even the vaunted B-17G only managing about one kill for every three bombers lost.

I think it might be a good arena flag so that it can be switched on where appropriate.

[Dragon Tamer]

I always say there are only 3 planes that you need to worry about at 30k, only one needs to be feared. The fear for me is a 163, so unless I'm attacking strats I don't really need to worry.

If however I see a 152 or a 47 above me, I will start to panic very quickly... especially if they are coming in my direction.

[Krusty]

I don't think it is good, as things stand, to limit bombers in the MA.  They are mostly helpless against fighters with even the vaunted B-17G only managing about one kill for every three bombers lost.

I think it might be a good arena flag so that it can be switched on where appropriate.

Don't count total kills to deaths. These are the primary dive bombing platform nowadays. Folks run them into hills, into hangars, and if they can't get what they want with level bombing they run them into the target, seconds after dropping their ord. Many don't give a second thought to blowing drones, either.

Not to mention all the folks that up them for base defense to specifically be shot down (to waste ammo of the attacking planes), or to use them as mini deathstars.

And don't forget the just-plain-idiots that fly them 500 feet into a furball of 50+ to try and bomb a GV fight below or a runway. Kills to death is not a valid concern for these planes.

IMO HTC needs to implement a throttle cap at max continuous, and if you push the throttle forward it starts counting. After the 30 minute limit for that setting (or less, depending on plane) the throttle drops back to max continuous. Planes with WEP could toggle that but once it's gone you would drop back to max continuous.

Basically 2 WEP counters, if you see what I'm getting at. One automatic, one manual. Maybe not the BEST idea, but hell, at least I'm thinking of solutions. Take 'em or leave 'em.

[Chalenge]

If that's the case then the same needs to be applied to all fighters that were so handicapped.

[coombz]

bombers are already an easy kill, can't imagine why anyone would think making them 'weaker' is a good idea

[Chalenge]

There's a major difference.... Most fighters had a max continuous duration that lasts LONGER than their fuel will allow in this game. That's why HTC has done the throttle the way they have.

It isn't an issue with fighters. They flew at higher power settings throughout their flight than most bombers ever used in emergencies.

It *IS* an issue with bombers, though. When even a regular sortie can last over an hour and they run on WEP the entire time... it would be like a P-51 with 25% fuel never running out of WEP or needing cooldown or running out of gas either.

You can't compare them, really.

Yet you are comparing them and chose to weaken the weakest of the lot. Besides, you're wrong. Some aircraft like the Typhoon and Tempest always had a performance problem due to heat. If those airplanes kept high power settings for very long their engines would become useless rather quickly. Bombers run on WEP the whole time? Really? Are we even talking about the same game? You are hand picking the aircraft that support your argument, making up some data for the same reason, and ignoring the aircraft that do not fit the bill.

Krusty, I have already made a point of demonstrating how utterly weak bombers are. Fighters have an undeniable advantage already. Even at very high altitude where the bombers should have a superior edge they do not. A determined opponent will always be able to destroy the bombers and if the fighter has any kind of experience at all he will not even get hit. Not once. I proved this by shooting down more than 100 bombers in 30 days and never getting hit. Unless you believe in some unseen force of the universe bestowing good, or bad unluck upon people randomly, then you have to accept that the bombers have a disadvantage in the game.

[Hazard69]

Well, IMHO, unless you upped with the specific intent to go hunt bombers bomber hunting is rather difficult.

If I upped for a routine furball / basefight environment, and otw to target I see a set of buffs at 25k+ heading for strats, I wouldn't even bother trying to chase them down. I know my P38 will empty its 75% tank well before I can reach that altitude then climb another couple of thousand and then chase them down to engage.

But then again wasn't that the same dilemma faced by the real guys who got a last minute scramble to intercept an inbound formation?

While Im all for a little more complex engine management in game, if HTC has modelled fighters that can run at full mil power endlessly then it wouldn't really be fair to deny that advantage to bombers either. Especially when we have bombers like the mosquito or the KI67 or the JU88 where the speed is an vital part of its defenses.

Besides the buff pilot spent a lot longer than any fighter will to get to that altitude to enhance his survivability. It would not be fair to now go deny him that.

So No, I do not think that nerfing bombers would be wise choice. As chalenge has said, once you encounter a set of bombers at the right altitude and with adequate fuel on board, theres not much the buff pilot can really do to escape (unless you do something daft like me at times )

However what I would like to see is an increased challenge to the bombing element. Prohibit bomb release unless in level flight for 30seconds (on the big lancstuka birds that is) add wind layers (increasing with altitude) at say 15k, 20k and 25k to make bombing from higher alts a bit tougher. It really is too damn easy-peasy as is now. Id also like some semi-transparent to opaque scattered cloud layers between 15k to 25k.

[Karnak]

The one thing that I have seen suggested that I liked was tying it to the drones.  If the drones would only fly at a cruise setting you'd have the choice of a single fast bomber, or a formation of cruising bombers.

Still not sure that should be anything other than a flag that can be set on or off though.

Challenge,

You don't seem to acknowledge the difference in how fighters, particularly interceptors like the Spitfire and Bf109, and bombers were used.  Fighters simple did not fight while using cruise settings.  Bombers did.

[kappa]

most any bomber above 18k is hard to kill.. 25-30k and it is a very small selection of the planeset that can be effective to even stay ahead of b17..

[icepac]

Proper interception technique will allow you to run down B29s at 30k with at least 10 planes in the planeset.

[Delirium]

The one thing that I have seen suggested that I liked was tying it to the drones.  If the drones would only fly at a cruise setting you'd have the choice of a single fast bomber, or a formation of cruising bombers.

I like that idea.

+1

[kappa]

Proper interception technique will allow you to run down B29s at 30k with at least 10 planes in the planeset.

sure.. you can run up a bombers bellybutton at 3k too, just not too wise.. roughly 5, including the jets/rockets, can mount an effective attack on b29s at 30k..

clearly why we need the mig15..

+1 for slowing formations..

[jeffdn]

sure.. you can run up a bombers bellybutton at 3k too, just not too wise.. roughly 5, including the jets/rockets, can mount an effective attack on b29s at 30k..

clearly why we need the mig15..

+1 for slowing formations..

P-47, Ta-152, 109 K-4, Spit XIV (death wish), P-51...

[Karnak]

sure.. you can run up a bombers bellybutton at 3k too, just not too wise.. roughly 5, including the jets/rockets, can mount an effective attack on b29s at 30k..

clearly why we need the mig15..

+1 for slowing formations..

Me163
Me262
P-47M
P-47N
Spitfire Mk XIV
Ta152

I think that is about it, but it might be rough with the P-47M and Spitfire Mk XIV due to fuel limitations.