An interesting fix for high alt, high speed bombers

[Baumer]

Glad to see that no matter how long I'm away some things never change. The argument that bomber engines are fragile and fighter engines are tough, is just ridiculous.

The truth of the matter is what makes intercepting high altitude bombers so difficult is a lack of clear information for the defenders. I blame this on the fact that the current clipboard radar is so limited in it's functional capabilities. What really needs to happen is for HTC to update the radar system to facilitate more flexibility and balance out the information inequity the interceptors face.

I would propose a radar setup that looks something like an airspace model (see below).



This way the radar range could be set at different altitudes and allow more time for the defenders to prepare for a proper intercept. And it would be best if this function could be controlled by the CM's for special events. With several different altitude increments.

Another clipboard change that would help is for the ability to click on a red dot on the map and turn on a visual trace of that targets flight path.  

And the final clipboard change would be to allow for a different type of dot to distinguish bombers from fighters.

By providing these three different pieces of information, interceptors would have a much better chance at success in my opinion.

[Karnak]

The argument that bomber engines are fragile and fighter engines are tough, is just ridiculous.

Nobody has made that argument, but if they did you are right, it would be ridiculous.

I agree that a radar model that provided altitude data and greater range of detection for higher altitude targets would be better.

[thrila]

My point is not whether I survive but the fact that I routinely kill the very planes everybody else says are uncatchable in planes they say can't catch them.

Icepac the yak in your image has a 20 mph speed advantage over the b29.  That means the yak will gain 500 yds in 1 minute on the b29, therefore the yak is highly likely to be shot down before it enters effective gunnery range.  I believe kappa has hit the nail on the head, several planes can climb to 30k and have a speed advantage over a b29, but very few have a significant advantage so as to make a proper attack on one.  Slowly gaining on a b29 in a tail chase is not an effective strategy to shoot down a b29.

[icepac]

I have films.....will post after you guys talk more smack.

Feeds out rope.

[Karnak]

LOL.....they descended to speed up.

I descended to catch them.

I caught up.

Ok, so they sucked at B-29s.  "Decended to speed up" and reached a whopping 317mph and 348mph respectively?  After a 2.4 and 3.2k foot decent?

[icepac]

Ok, so they sucked at B-29s.  "Decended to speed up" and reached a whopping 317mph and 348mph respectively?  After a 2.4 and 3.2k foot decent?

Why not ask the pilot of the B29s (biggamer) whether he desceneded a few minutes before I ran them down?

[Karnak]

Why not ask the pilot of the B29s (biggamer) whether he desceneded a few minutes before I ran them down?

Doesn't matter if he did or didn't.  With the listed speeds of 317mph and 346mph respectively they weren't doing very well and thus cannot be held up as representative examples to be intercepted.  Particularly given your suicide attack approach on subpar players.

[Lusche]

ith the listed speeds of 317mph and 346mph respectively they weren't doing very well and thus cannot be held up as representative examples to be intercepted.

Just for the record (and perhaps not applicable to the exact scenario being discussed), but 346 mph is in fact a very typical cruising speed for B-29 at high altitudes inbound to the target. Thus 346mph are quite  representative for that bomber.
The often cited 380mph+ are only attained after dropping the ords. As the primary goal of any interceptor / bomber hunter is to stop the heavies before they drop on their target, this is not of minor importance.

[Karnak]

Just for the record (and perhaps not applicable to the exact scenario being discussed), but 346 mph is in fact a very typical cruising speed for B-29 at high altitudes inbound to the target. Thus 346mph are quite  representative for that bomber.
The often cited 380mph+ are only attained after dropping the ords. As the primary goal of any interceptor / bomber hunter is to stop the heavies before they drop on their target, this is not of minor importance.

Agreed, but not after diving 3.2k to gain speed in order to elude the pursuing La-5FN as icepac claimed the situation was.  If it had been a long pursuit at 26.8k and the B-29 had slowed to 348mph, the other B-29 ought to be going faster than 317mph.

[tunnelrat]

I don't see why the number of planes capable of intercepting by far the most outlandishly perked bomber in the game has any bearing on the argument.

You take the right plane for the job... if you're attempting to intercept high-performance/high-altitude late war bombers, use a high-performance/high-altitude late war fighter. 

The enhanced radar intel is good to go... maybe even have a circle "dot" indicating a plane under say 10k or whatever... a square "dot" indicating a plane between 10 and 20, and a triangle "dot" indicating a plane north of 20k?

[Lusche]

The enhanced radar intel is good to go... maybe even have a circle "dot" indicating a plane under say 10k or whatever... a square "dot" indicating a plane between 10 and 20, and a triangle "dot" indicating a plane north of 20k?

The most probable reaction to this would be more bomber flying at more extreme altitudes. If there's an icon saying "k+" they will either fly at 19.9... or 29, but hardly in between anymore.

A similar effect could happen for strat raiders in case the radar circles will be increased for higher altitudes. This would quickly cover about every inch of the map. We had that (total coverage) once, and the effect on strat raiders and other long range intruders that I could observe was a) much less of them appearing overall and b) higher average altitudes.

[Baumer]

Lusche I understand your point but there could be increments every 2,000 feet, just like the current wind settings.

with that many options the ranges could be balanced in such a way that it doesn't stop someone from bombing or push them to the max altitude. Having this functionality would increase the flexibility of the arena in general, and could help create a better chance to intercept high bombers.

In the past with any radar changes it has been an all or nothing this would give HTC a chance to try something different.
   

[Lusche]

and could help create a better chance to intercept high bombers.   

Allow me a more general remark: Players are not even remotely using their chances now. Darbars screaming "high alt bombers" for 30+ minutes, the presence of high valued bomber targets, continuous and detailed reports on country channel usually get thoroughly ignored. I can point out a 20k raid inbound to a target for like 20 minutes, but players are for the most part only reacting to targets flashing with the enemy directly overhead.

It's so much easier to kill high alt raids if you actually use the tools already there. Map and country text.


(Not to speak of all those would-be interceptors always upping from a base just below or even behind an enemy raid  )

[Karnak]

(Not to speak of all those would-be interceptors always upping from a base just below or even behind an enemy raid  )

I love watching that from the bombsight of my Mossie as I pass over the field.  I was dogged by a Spitfire Mk XIV for about five sectors once after he had lifted under me.  Never came close to being a threat though.

[Baumer]

99% of the players in Aces High will never learn how to chase bardar like you do Luche. Just like other aspects of the game, high altitude interception requires a unique set of skills to be done properly. Most players will never master it in the current state because after climbing and chasing bardar for even 20 minutes they will loose interest. And for an inexperienced player, chasing bardar leads invariably to a stern attack which further frustrates the interceptor.

Since most players have lost interest in attempting high altitude interception, you can't even begin to teach proper techniques for doing it.